• Liverpool Message Board

  • oscar oscar Nov 4, 2012 18:09 Flag

    January is too long of a wait

    A legitimate scoring threat to compliment Luis Suarez would turn these close matches into Liverpool wins.

    Two more months of frustration won't do the side any good. Its time that John Henry stepped up to the plate ( a bit of a baseball reference seems apt ).

    Do it now.

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    • Basic question to ask, is, John Henry needs to step up and do what (now) ?

      Unless, there's something I'm unaware of, free agents (Drogba is the obvious name everyone will harp on) are the only option, and if there was one they were interested in, or thought could do the job, they'd had done it a long time ago.. If his situation clears up as some may suggest in the papers, then do it, but it seems more complicated than pen to paper..

      Rodgers has said in quotations, he has been afforded the money for January and is in ongoing dialogue about his targets/options with Henry & FSG.

      Again, if there's something I'm missing or unaware of, please correct me, but aside from securing a deal now, for January, which they'd never announce anyways, not sure what else they can do. Paying now, just makes Jan seem even further, so it really doesn't help matters..

      I will say, that it would be nice if some other players would "step up" and help a little. I don't know if Shelvey slipped, missed the ball, or just lost the plot on his easy chance, and Sterling, Sahin, and Suso all had shots, specifically Sterling, where they lacked any composure shooting right at the keeper rather than that extremely large frame around him..

    • Liverpool's season was over as soon as Rodgers became manager.

      He'd be sacked at any other club. Only Liverpool FC "gives these manager's a chance."

      11 points in 11 league games including today says it all.

    • I dont think we can sign anyone till January :)
      Maybe Robbie Fowler and Ian Rush can carry the torch till then :)

      • 1 Reply to Hobitez
      • We need back up for Suarez. That is very important, but it won't be the same sort of player, because he's a one off. Unless we sign Messi :-)
        Tactically you can not play with two kids.. who are essentially midfielders, one being an out and out winger and the other a playmaker.. left and right of a striker who drifts.
        When Suarez moves out of the centre as a 'false 9' the other whose space Suarez should have gone into, HAS to bust a nut to get into the box and be the 9. Likewise, when the other wide man has the ball in his normal position, the other has to move quickly from out to in, to get at LEAST level with the far post. That is essential.
        I think you could play Sterling on the left if you had Kuyt on the right, who is the perfect player for this system on one side. The epitome of what we need.
        I don't see any point in 3 additional strikers, I think we need a winger who can score 10-15 a season, and a 2nd striker like Kuyt, who can play EITHER wide or central, but especially wide, and who hunts in and around the box and lurks on the far post. Someone with a bit of presence.

        Any more than two is pie in the sky economically, and I also think we need a defensive midfielder, a proper tiger with good distribution....so we can't spunk all our money on front men as an overreaction.

    • Hi Dave

      Taking your points on board i agree with most of it. Arsenal are a funny oddity as far as attractivness goes. They never seem to kick on to titles and are in the mix for 3rd and 4th not 1st and second as it used to be for them.........but 4th gets CL footy and Arsenal can provide that for players on a regular basis. However, they to the best of myknowledge have a wage cap and players are only human and an extra 10k a week somewhere else often swings things.

      I take you points on Liverpool being attractive to top players still and the reasons why, which leaves me with only one solution for getting a team that can buy top players but not the ones that Man U/Chelsea/ Man City and top 2 Spanish/Italian clubs want all the way past the ceiling for achievements with this kind of squad...............................The right manager is the key. Is it Rodgers given time, or A N Other????

      I know it sounds simplistic but just as your L Messi's don't grow on trees, a Manager is IMO the most important member of the squad. The RIGHT one can achieve far far more with a given 11 players than the wrong one will.

      Look at Fergie (excuse me whilst i spit!). Many of the players who have rubbed shoulders with Keane, Hughes, Kanchelskis, Ronaldo etc etc have not been top Premiership players IMO....But because Fergie is the Boss these players seem to play above themselves. Same at Forest under Clough, how many of those players travelled well when they quit Forest?

      Wes Brown is OK, as is J O'Shea but away from Fergie they are very average.........with Fergie they can step into the squad and play very well in massive games. Same goes for Fletcher, who IMO is run of the mill but for Man U he was way better than his talent would have you believe.

      Of course Liverpool need players but the most important is the Manager and HIS team.............Get that right and things will fall into place.

    • pay them enough and they will come. That's how Chelsea and City have elevated their position in the league

      Of course that spits in the face FFP which doesn't seem to have caused mass panic in those two clubs (for example) yet. There are other naughty clubs as well.

    • Roy,

      I think like Dave says, and you implied, we will remain attractive for some time. Point taken, or made, when you say we've not won the league in 20 odd years, yet remained amongst elite names in England, still able to challenge for players we're financially capable of, and to a certain degree of success in Europe.. I used Suarez as a prime example..

      While the point you made about the 20 odd years, several of which have been far from stellar, we are coming off a difficult season league wise, but went to 2 Trophy finals at Wembley on the World Stage, won 1, narrowly defeated in the other. I think some undervalue the perception of young, European/world footballers and their view of the English domestic cups, I'm very confident they saw these matchs and know the name Liverpool. It's not like Portsmouth winning the FA Cup, or Stoke City losing in the final

      So, nobody can put a time on it. But, if we get some things right this January, which I am 110% certain we will, our draws will turn to victories, some narrow defeats to draws, even pull out a few more W's. While it was another draw yesterday vs Newcastle who are a handful for anyone, I thought perhaps that was our most dominating display all season, and most attrative football I've seen in years, had Jonjo Shelvey not fallen or slipped on his kick in front of the open goal, we're feeling sky high (in context of current situation) with a great 2-1 win.

      That said, and while everyone has their own views, with Rodgers being in his first year, with a squad that has been massively overhauled and not even completed yet, starting a 17 year old, 18 year old, 20 year old, two 22 year olds, and Sahin who's 23 along with Shelvey who didn't start but is a regular, I see nothing but progress. I'm not sure how much more any manager could do while using kids vs grown men and world class players in the toughest league around, and having them fight like they're seasoned veterans and dominate games like they have done on a few occasions now. To the point of Messi's don't grow on trees, but he did come through the Barca academy, and while never close to his level, Sterling, Suso, Jerome Sinclair and 1-2 other names could very well be our versions.. again, in context, not talking 60 goals here.

      So like Dave said, new players, will have to view a much bigger picture. Consider playing time, which in our case, and Arsenal, youth gets the chance, long term and short term, along with money vs happiness and belief. One other thing I would like to point out since we're talking the big spenders like Chelsea, City, Madrid etc.. Since I've been a fan almost 10 years now, I'll allow someone to correct me if I'm wrong, but in my time, even when competing amongst the elite, we've never been a club to spend Massive and until Carroll (don't get me started) Torres was our club record at 25M ish..?

      That is dwarfed by Aguero, Dzeko, Hazard, Ronaldo, Benzema, Kaka, even Van Persie considering his age, where if he'd been 25, would have gone for 40M, and then we have Cavani and Falcao who will both exceed 45M-55M, and none other than the same Torres who went for 50M.. So it seems at least in my time, no matter how good or bad we've been, it's never been reflected in spending massively and failure in return, OR by not spending massively, only sometimes (2 thieves in particular) and a big cluster fcuk this August, not spending properly.. And given what BR did have, Allen, Assaidi, Sahin, Yesil (jury not popular on Borini) have been good buys, and I'm curious what he could do with 20-30M, if given the chance.. I think he'll get it spot on.. My belief anyways.

    • Might take you to task a little bit Colin on the "BR's record in buying in isn't that great" comment.

      Put aside Borini who I think it’s fair to say has not had nearly enough time to be rated either way, even though I believe you think differently, has his other purchases really been that bad?

      Allen - not his best day yesterday granted, but think he's been one of our best performers this season

      Sahan - would you consider him a flop?

      Assaidi - far from dross in my book

      So worst case that is 3 out of 4 not bad, or for me realistically 3 out of 3 not bad, and one yet to be rated.

      But also look at him in terms of his eye for a player, in which case we can cast our net a little wider by asking who he's promoted within the club. Wisdom, Sterling, Suso, or even JonJo, although he was already on the fringes of the first team with Kenny. But it seems to me he knows a good player when he sees one, so why not trust him to pick out 2 or 3 more, and hope the suits at the club (which is where I worry) are able to land the targets.

    • I take this second point on the manager maybe being as crucial if not more crucial that top players. Whether BR is one of those top managers only time will tell, but what I can say is that no club who is lucky enough to have a truly great manager knew that for certain in less than 6 months of the man joining the club.

      In some ways great managers (with maybe the exception of Maureen if you consider him a great manager) are grown over time. Was Fergie great when he first came south of the border or did he become great after years and years of getting it right (which arguably he did not in his first couple years). Same thing for Pep who is the flavor of the month. Yes he's young, but he spent time as the apprentice at Barca, learning their ways, and coming up through the youth ranks before taking on the big job.

      BR is also young, and just as I challenge anyone who tells me he knows for sure he will fail, I can not tell you he will succeed. However the resume is right, he's got the experience, so he's keeping the fingers crossed.

    • Ah, but we have a cunning plan.


      Robert

    • Hi Dave

      Taking your points on board i agree with most of it. Arsenal are a funny oddity as far as attractivness goes. They never seem to kick on to titles and are in the mix for 3rd and 4th not 1st and second as it used to be for them.........but 4th gets CL footy and Arsenal can provide that for players on a regular basis. However, they to the best of myknowledge have a wage cap and players are only human and an extra 10k a week somewhere else often swings things.

      I take you points on Liverpool being attractive to top players still and the reasons why, which leaves me with only one solution for getting a team that can buy top players but not the ones that Man U/Chelsea/ Man City and top 2 Spanish/Italian clubs want all the way past the ceiling for achievements with this kind of squad...............................The right manager is the key. Is it Rodgers given time, or A N Other????

      I know it sounds simplistic but just as your L Messi's don't grow on trees, a Manager is IMO the most important member of the squad. The RIGHT one can achieve far far more with a given 11 players than the wrong one will.

      Look at Fergie (excuse me whilst i spit!). Many of the players who have rubbed shoulders with Keane, Hughes, Kanchelskis, Ronaldo etc etc have not been top Premiership players IMO....But because Fergie is the Boss these players seem to play above themselves. Same at Forest under Clough, how many of those players travelled well when they quit Forest?

      Wes Brown is OK, as is J O'Shea but away from Fergie they are very average.........with Fergie they can step into the squad and play very well in massive games. Same goes for Fletcher, who IMO is run of the mill but for Man U he was way better than his talent would have you believe.

      Of course Liverpool need players but the most important is the Manager and HIS team.............Get that right and things will fall into place.

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