• Liverpool Message Board

  • oscar oscar Nov 4, 2012 18:09 Flag

    January is too long of a wait

    A legitimate scoring threat to compliment Luis Suarez would turn these close matches into Liverpool wins.

    Two more months of frustration won't do the side any good. Its time that John Henry stepped up to the plate ( a bit of a baseball reference seems apt ).

    Do it now.

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    • Basic question to ask, is, John Henry needs to step up and do what (now) ?

      Unless, there's something I'm unaware of, free agents (Drogba is the obvious name everyone will harp on) are the only option, and if there was one they were interested in, or thought could do the job, they'd had done it a long time ago.. If his situation clears up as some may suggest in the papers, then do it, but it seems more complicated than pen to paper..

      Rodgers has said in quotations, he has been afforded the money for January and is in ongoing dialogue about his targets/options with Henry & FSG.

      Again, if there's something I'm missing or unaware of, please correct me, but aside from securing a deal now, for January, which they'd never announce anyways, not sure what else they can do. Paying now, just makes Jan seem even further, so it really doesn't help matters..

      I will say, that it would be nice if some other players would "step up" and help a little. I don't know if Shelvey slipped, missed the ball, or just lost the plot on his easy chance, and Sterling, Sahin, and Suso all had shots, specifically Sterling, where they lacked any composure shooting right at the keeper rather than that extremely large frame around him..

    • Hi Jason

      Whilst i do take your points on board about Liverpool still attracting top players to the club as being a fact..............As a question. How lonh will this go on for?

      I think it's only natural that the longer a club is away from winning their league, their cups (domestic cups are getting more and more worthless prestige wise) and if not winning the league, then regular qualification for the Champions League.........the less attractive they become for top players.

      Of course, if a club has the fan base and the backers they can always punch above their current weight with how attractive they are to play for in football terms by offering a wage/transfer fee other clubs above can't match but the very top players will get both the wage and Champions league footy at another club.

      So in a round about way the question is..................How long can Liverpool carry on winning next to nothing, slipping further and further away from Champions League footy and winning the league................before Liverpool become unnatractive to top players?

      As for me.

      I like Liverpool but I admit I am amazed they have stayed as attractive to top players as they have done, given they have not won the league for so so long and are slipping further behind Champions League footy every year!

    • I dont think we can sign anyone till January :)
      Maybe Robbie Fowler and Ian Rush can carry the torch till then :)

      • 1 Reply to Hobitez
      • We need back up for Suarez. That is very important, but it won't be the same sort of player, because he's a one off. Unless we sign Messi :-)
        Tactically you can not play with two kids.. who are essentially midfielders, one being an out and out winger and the other a playmaker.. left and right of a striker who drifts.
        When Suarez moves out of the centre as a 'false 9' the other whose space Suarez should have gone into, HAS to bust a nut to get into the box and be the 9. Likewise, when the other wide man has the ball in his normal position, the other has to move quickly from out to in, to get at LEAST level with the far post. That is essential.
        I think you could play Sterling on the left if you had Kuyt on the right, who is the perfect player for this system on one side. The epitome of what we need.
        I don't see any point in 3 additional strikers, I think we need a winger who can score 10-15 a season, and a 2nd striker like Kuyt, who can play EITHER wide or central, but especially wide, and who hunts in and around the box and lurks on the far post. Someone with a bit of presence.

        Any more than two is pie in the sky economically, and I also think we need a defensive midfielder, a proper tiger with good distribution....so we can't spunk all our money on front men as an overreaction.

    • Roy, I take your point and think you are correct that there is a point that a club does start becoming less attractive to top players due to current standing in both league, domestic cups and especially European competition (with a premium on CL of course).

      However I don't think its always a question of where a club is now, but where a player (and or his advisors) think the club is going. And, that is the reason I think Liverpool is still an attractive option for players. We may not have the pull of those in the champions league so think the likes of Utd, Chelsea and City do have a major advantage (not to mention their ability or willingness to pay higher wages), however I think we are at or maybe have an advantage over the clubs at the next rung on the ladder.

      For example are we more or less attractive than Arsenal? Yes the gunners have CL football, and have consistently placed in the top 4, however are they a club moving forward, standing still or moving backward? I'm not going to answer that, as I'm sure I'll upset a few gunners, however from a prospective player’s perspective I'd not be surprised if they thought over the life of the contract they were about to sign there was as much chance of winning a league title or domestic cup as there was falling out of the top 4.

      The next rung down from there I'd guess is the likes of Newcastle and Everton. Yes both doing better in the league but players are not stupid, and nor are their agents. They know that good management and a bit of luck will see those clubs push for European spots, and maybe even a top 4 finish if the stars line up, however they also know they don't have the financial clout to push on from there, or even maintain any gains they might make in a single season. If Everton stay 4th between now and the end of the season, they will deserve CL football, however does anyone think Ken will slap down the millions needed to build out is squad so they can actually compete in Europe?

      Liverpool on the other hand is not currently in a position to really attract players. However for most people it’s trying to move forward. Whether that happens or not is a question mark, however for a prospective player thinking about the move he thinks he might be the player or at least one of the players that puts Liverpool back into Europe, which surely strokes the ego. But additionally once back in Europe it looks much more likely that Liverpool will spend the necessary money to stay at the top table that other clubs that might also be after that same player’s signature.

    • Hi Dave

      Taking your points on board i agree with most of it. Arsenal are a funny oddity as far as attractivness goes. They never seem to kick on to titles and are in the mix for 3rd and 4th not 1st and second as it used to be for them.........but 4th gets CL footy and Arsenal can provide that for players on a regular basis. However, they to the best of myknowledge have a wage cap and players are only human and an extra 10k a week somewhere else often swings things.

      I take you points on Liverpool being attractive to top players still and the reasons why, which leaves me with only one solution for getting a team that can buy top players but not the ones that Man U/Chelsea/ Man City and top 2 Spanish/Italian clubs want all the way past the ceiling for achievements with this kind of squad...............................The right manager is the key. Is it Rodgers given time, or A N Other????

      I know it sounds simplistic but just as your L Messi's don't grow on trees, a Manager is IMO the most important member of the squad. The RIGHT one can achieve far far more with a given 11 players than the wrong one will.

      Look at Fergie (excuse me whilst i spit!). Many of the players who have rubbed shoulders with Keane, Hughes, Kanchelskis, Ronaldo etc etc have not been top Premiership players IMO....But because Fergie is the Boss these players seem to play above themselves. Same at Forest under Clough, how many of those players travelled well when they quit Forest?

      Wes Brown is OK, as is J O'Shea but away from Fergie they are very average.........with Fergie they can step into the squad and play very well in massive games. Same goes for Fletcher, who IMO is run of the mill but for Man U he was way better than his talent would have you believe.

      Of course Liverpool need players but the most important is the Manager and HIS team.............Get that right and things will fall into place.

    • Hi Dave

      Taking your points on board i agree with most of it. Arsenal are a funny oddity as far as attractivness goes. They never seem to kick on to titles and are in the mix for 3rd and 4th not 1st and second as it used to be for them.........but 4th gets CL footy and Arsenal can provide that for players on a regular basis. However, they to the best of myknowledge have a wage cap and players are only human and an extra 10k a week somewhere else often swings things.

      I take you points on Liverpool being attractive to top players still and the reasons why, which leaves me with only one solution for getting a team that can buy top players but not the ones that Man U/Chelsea/ Man City and top 2 Spanish/Italian clubs want all the way past the ceiling for achievements with this kind of squad...............................The right manager is the key. Is it Rodgers given time, or A N Other????

      I know it sounds simplistic but just as your L Messi's don't grow on trees, a Manager is IMO the most important member of the squad. The RIGHT one can achieve far far more with a given 11 players than the wrong one will.

      Look at Fergie (excuse me whilst i spit!). Many of the players who have rubbed shoulders with Keane, Hughes, Kanchelskis, Ronaldo etc etc have not been top Premiership players IMO....But because Fergie is the Boss these players seem to play above themselves. Same at Forest under Clough, how many of those players travelled well when they quit Forest?

      Wes Brown is OK, as is J O'Shea but away from Fergie they are very average.........with Fergie they can step into the squad and play very well in massive games. Same goes for Fletcher, who IMO is run of the mill but for Man U he was way better than his talent would have you believe.

      Of course Liverpool need players but the most important is the Manager and HIS team.............Get that right and things will fall into place.

    • Hi Dave

      Taking your points on board i agree with most of it. Arsenal are a funny oddity as far as attractivness goes. They never seem to kick on to titles and are in the mix for 3rd and 4th not 1st and second as it used to be for them.........but 4th gets CL footy and Arsenal can provide that for players on a regular basis. However, they to the best of myknowledge have a wage cap and players are only human and an extra 10k a week somewhere else often swings things.

      I take you points on Liverpool being attractive to top players still and the reasons why, which leaves me with only one solution for getting a team that can buy top players but not the ones that Man U/Chelsea/ Man City and top 2 Spanish/Italian clubs want all the way past the ceiling for achievements with this kind of squad...............................The right manager is the key. Is it Rodgers given time, or A N Other????

      I know it sounds simplistic but just as your L Messi's don't grow on trees, a Manager is IMO the most important member of the squad. The RIGHT one can achieve far far more with a given 11 players than the wrong one will.

      Look at Fergie (excuse me whilst i spit!). Many of the players who have rubbed shoulders with Keane, Hughes, Kanchelskis, Ronaldo etc etc have not been top Premiership players IMO....But because Fergie is the Boss these players seem to play above themselves. Same at Forest under Clough, how many of those players travelled well when they quit Forest?

      Wes Brown is OK, as is J O'Shea but away from Fergie they are very average.........with Fergie they can step into the squad and play very well in massive games. Same goes for Fletcher, who IMO is run of the mill but for Man U he was way better than his talent would have you believe.

      Of course Liverpool need players but the most important is the Manager and HIS team.............Get that right and things will fall into place.

    • pay them enough and they will come. That's how Chelsea and City have elevated their position in the league

      Of course that spits in the face FFP which doesn't seem to have caused mass panic in those two clubs (for example) yet. There are other naughty clubs as well.

    • Ah, but we have a cunning plan.


      Robert

    • Roy,

      I think like Dave says, and you implied, we will remain attractive for some time. Point taken, or made, when you say we've not won the league in 20 odd years, yet remained amongst elite names in England, still able to challenge for players we're financially capable of, and to a certain degree of success in Europe.. I used Suarez as a prime example..

      While the point you made about the 20 odd years, several of which have been far from stellar, we are coming off a difficult season league wise, but went to 2 Trophy finals at Wembley on the World Stage, won 1, narrowly defeated in the other. I think some undervalue the perception of young, European/world footballers and their view of the English domestic cups, I'm very confident they saw these matchs and know the name Liverpool. It's not like Portsmouth winning the FA Cup, or Stoke City losing in the final

      So, nobody can put a time on it. But, if we get some things right this January, which I am 110% certain we will, our draws will turn to victories, some narrow defeats to draws, even pull out a few more W's. While it was another draw yesterday vs Newcastle who are a handful for anyone, I thought perhaps that was our most dominating display all season, and most attrative football I've seen in years, had Jonjo Shelvey not fallen or slipped on his kick in front of the open goal, we're feeling sky high (in context of current situation) with a great 2-1 win.

      That said, and while everyone has their own views, with Rodgers being in his first year, with a squad that has been massively overhauled and not even completed yet, starting a 17 year old, 18 year old, 20 year old, two 22 year olds, and Sahin who's 23 along with Shelvey who didn't start but is a regular, I see nothing but progress. I'm not sure how much more any manager could do while using kids vs grown men and world class players in the toughest league around, and having them fight like they're seasoned veterans and dominate games like they have done on a few occasions now. To the point of Messi's don't grow on trees, but he did come through the Barca academy, and while never close to his level, Sterling, Suso, Jerome Sinclair and 1-2 other names could very well be our versions.. again, in context, not talking 60 goals here.

      So like Dave said, new players, will have to view a much bigger picture. Consider playing time, which in our case, and Arsenal, youth gets the chance, long term and short term, along with money vs happiness and belief. One other thing I would like to point out since we're talking the big spenders like Chelsea, City, Madrid etc.. Since I've been a fan almost 10 years now, I'll allow someone to correct me if I'm wrong, but in my time, even when competing amongst the elite, we've never been a club to spend Massive and until Carroll (don't get me started) Torres was our club record at 25M ish..?

      That is dwarfed by Aguero, Dzeko, Hazard, Ronaldo, Benzema, Kaka, even Van Persie considering his age, where if he'd been 25, would have gone for 40M, and then we have Cavani and Falcao who will both exceed 45M-55M, and none other than the same Torres who went for 50M.. So it seems at least in my time, no matter how good or bad we've been, it's never been reflected in spending massively and failure in return, OR by not spending massively, only sometimes (2 thieves in particular) and a big cluster fcuk this August, not spending properly.. And given what BR did have, Allen, Assaidi, Sahin, Yesil (jury not popular on Borini) have been good buys, and I'm curious what he could do with 20-30M, if given the chance.. I think he'll get it spot on.. My belief anyways.

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