• Liverpool Message Board

  • Paddy Paddy Nov 12, 2012 10:17 Flag

    Is it just me ...

    or is anybody else worried by some of the quotes coming from BR?

    "We finished eighth last year. If we can improve on that, it'll be fantastic for us"

    Seriously? It will be "fantastic" for Liverpool to get 7th? That comes after the "superb performance" losing 1-0 against Anzhi.

    If BR thinks we are a mid-table club (which we are at the moment) then that's where we are likely to stay. I would prefer to have a manager and owners who aim a little higher.

    ps. I also heard something along the lines of "It won't matter if we lost to Everton as long as we blood some of the new kids" being attributed to him. I left it out above because I didn't hear him say it and I can't believe any manager of our club would have said something that crass.

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    • I haven't watched your matches to the same extent as you, I'm sure. Saying you're proud of your team after a bad result is fine. Mourinho used to do it when Chelsea lost. The thing is, he didn't have to do it very often. But saying it every week or more often makes you look like a tit. There comes a point when you can't keep saying "we were brilliant, but we didn't get a result".

      I noticed that in the Being Liverpool series he was saying it in the dressing room at halftime and full time in each match. Give him marks for consistency.

      I think a certain Bill Shankly might be spinning in his grave.


      Robert

    • Actually Robert, I'm shocked you’re not a Liverpool fan. By now I'd be sure we'd start rubbing off on you just a little!

      On the waffle point I think that is fair comment. But then again I'd say that was true of 98pc or league managers who are able to say nothing with many, many words. Must be a popular module on the FA coaches courses.

      On being proud of his team, I'm wondering what realistically you'd expect a manager to say after what many think was a good performance but a poor result. I'm not sure how many of the Liverpool matches you've seen in full, but think it’s fair we've played well in many of them, but not come away with the 3 points, and under such circumstances not sure you'd expect the manager to come out and say he is not proud of his lads. I mean since you think Chelsea controlled much of the match on Sunday, and should have, or were better odds for the 3 points would you have expected RDM to come out post match and be critical of his players?

    • Sorry if it appears I'm minimizing your comment in reference to his "fantastic quote", but I'd be curious as to what the odds makers would put on some of the potential targets for January, actually hearing, some let alone actually being able to read those words..

      If there is a player, come January that we are targeting, and conversely, is interested in becoming a Liverpool player, they will clearly see what's what in the table, will be explained to in whatever language they speak, what the club's plan is, and what their role is, and they will sign, or they won't.

      Suso has rejected the opportunity to return to Spain, some have said Barcelona and Madrid in specific, but if not those 2 immediately, someone else close, and then a step above since he's that talented, and rated so highly, but sitting 13th, he's just re-signed a new deal.

      Suarez has re-signed a new deal.
      Lucas has..
      Agger has...
      Skrtel has...
      Shelvey has..
      Fingers crossed, presumably Sterling will too

      All capable of playing and starting elsewhere, and of that lot, I'd be surprised if anyone other than Skrtel looked elsewhere.

      So, fantastic isn't the word, we all agree, neither is the position in the table, but as fans we see one glaring issue, as does Rodgers, and as will 2-3 players who are approached, who will have a chance to fix that. If so, things will be fantastic

    • I suppose since it sounds like you just don't like his words rather than his actions, you might just turn down the volume on the telly after the match. Personally I like the interviews post match and all the talking heads, but you've got to take them all with a pinch of salt, and view them as more entertainment than news.

      Players, other than a few like Barton or Balloteli, just come out with the same platitudes "it’s about the club, not me!" and managers are just trying to keep everyone happy (other than Fergie who just bans them or ignores them if he does not like them).

      But overall I don't think BR said anything really wrong. He would be happy doing better this term than last, and I'd agree with him. Whether the word should be fantastic, satisfied, or something else is subjective to me. But look at this way, we've had Rafa's rant, Roy always down in the dumps, Kenny talking but not really answer the questions, and now BR. Seems to me no matter what they say, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

    • never mind what the fans think, what do the players BR might target in January think with better than 8th place as fantastic target.

    • Exactly how I read it Robert.

      ps. Love the 'some would be surprised ...'

      :-)

    • Hey Red,

      In regards to the performance against Anzhi, no, I think it was a subpar performance at best, at least for more 2/3 of the match. Early on, we did our thing, passing the ball, and as the half wore on, created 2-3 chances, but (ironically as I mention them) Cole, Henderson and Morgan didn't finish, and will never clinically do so. I will also say, that based on the shape and lineup selected, including Morgan wide, not as a striker, so essentially none, it was perhaps the first time I think Rodgers has gone out with a setup for nothing more than a draw. If we'd come back 0-0, it would have been ugly and not reflective of the match, so yes, I agree 100%.

      Where I say he speaks the truth, I actually think he speaks as a supporter who sees the reality of the club, that based on the squad quality and depth, we are closer to mid table than top of the table. I don't think he's saying it to try and justify it or the results, but rather that it's the cold, harsh reality.

      To put in context, my view, and I'd hope at least some, for him to say if we can get up to 8th, perhaps 7th (not my standards btw, just so that's on record) given the skint squad we have, 1 capable striker, 3-4 players he doesn't want, and starting 3 players 20 or younger, 2 of which are teenagers, and then 4 more 23 or younger in Allen, Shelvey, Assaidi, Sahin, is a real handful, but at the same time sort of incredible, considering we punched 12 rounds vs City, more or less vs United, and while overall bested by Chelsea, could have pulled a W in the final minutes.

      I can't remember a team in recent memory in the EPL playing with so much youth, not even teams that have gotten promotion, or teams stripped down to relegation fodder. And, in that context, to almost overhaul this entire club, if more move in Jan, with 2-3 ins, then a finish at 8th or 1-2 spots further is A- progress, and B- good. I certainly wouldn't say fantastic, but if you listen to Rodgers enough, you'll notice he does 2 things, that I personally rate and commend... He doesn't shy away from calling certain players to play better or that they've been poor, and he does well at motivational speaking, saying so or so was brilliant, or the overall performance was briliant. I can see why others don't like that, but based on the above, with age, new system, new players, and in fact, some very good showings, lacking the killer goal, I don't think it's so wide of the mark..

      I'd rather hear him say something positive, even if it needs alot of work, only because several things are what they are and won't change even until August, but also rather than the unlucky card, or feeling sorry. I heard it too many times last year, and in recent years.

    • (Some on here may be surprised to hear) I'm not a Liverpool fan but I agree with you.

      Rodgers can say what he likes in interviews, and does. But if I was a Liverpool fan I'd be disappointed to hear him constantly saying about yet another disappointing result that it was a great performance and he's totally proud of his team and so on. I also wouldn't want it said it would be fantastic to finish anywhere above 8th, although you can't read too much into one comment like that.

      It may be remembered that Benitez was sacked for finishing below the top four and Dalglish was sacked for finishing eighth. There is no point in sacking a manager for a bad league position if you are then going to be happy with the same or worse the next season. So it could be presumed that finishing above eighth was the minimum requirement of the Liverpool manager's job, not fantasy.

      As an outsider my impression is that:
      - Rodgers is prone to waffle
      - comments about how proud he is of his team after yet another poor result smack to me of feeling the pressure to get results that aren't coming. It's very reminiscent of Dalglish last season.

      If I was feeling unkind I would interpret his comment as "it will be fantastic to finish above eighth because I'll keep my job for another year".


      Robert

    • Hi Jason

      I'm not sure I agree totally with all that but I understand your point.

      If another manager could have done better is not what I'm talking about here (although it would make an interesting topic of its own).

      Your point in the last para that "Rodgers speaks the truth” is something I disagree with. Unless you think that our performance against Anzhi was "superb" or that finishing anywhere above 8th would be "fantastic", I think that, on reflection, you'll agree.

    • I think there are a couple of things being overlooked and a couple of variables too...

      Kenny took the job with the premise he'd only see out the 3 years or less, if & when they found the "right" and "young" man/manager to take over. Those were his words, but obviously if he brough us into the top 3, challenging for top and CL, that would have gone out the window. It wasn't the case, so along with money spent, league results backwards, they made the move which was always a plan..

      That said, every person who walked through that door, was given the plan with whatever short term-long term goals, what was/wasn't acceptable, and the financial premises. Given the task, expectations of the fans, and following in the shoes of King Kenny, and not long before, Rafa who was successful, the line out the door wasn't like the Apple store for an Iphone 6, was it? Martinez, Laudrup, Klopp, Rodgers the young, affordable options, Pep Guardiola, young, completely unrealistic, Rafa, a popular, but conundrum, and an older, but good Van Gaal were the choices..

      Laudrup said no, didn't think he was ready, Klopp with conflicting stories, end of the day didn't make sense to leave the 2 time reigning winners of everything in Germany, Pep on stress alert and leave (aka money), Rafa enough to divide the sea like Moses did once, and Van Gaal maybe wanting more money and control than he'd be allowed, leaving it to Martinez and Rodgers. I'd always be curious to see Martinez with some money, but I don't really fancy him all that much for a few reasons, and I personally liked Rodgers.. That's just me.. but in great context, they were all faced with a monumental task at hand, and like I said it's not as if the line was bursting with names like Mourinho, Loew, Van Marwijk, etc etc..

      So, of the viable options, who would have been better, and be doing better under the circumstances and within the plan given? Could Martinez have knicked another 2 points, possibly, but who knows what he'd have done with buying/selling, and let's say it was Klopp, they play a completely different style than we have, at Dortmund, and his squad is dripping with German and Poland international stars, not Downing, Cole, Henderson, and some young, but extremely promising teenagers..

      In addition to all of this, in not securing another striker, who would have or could have done a whole lot better? I stepped away from Rafa, but, based what the style would be, it might be a fair bet to say we're 1 win better, but then half the people complaining over his style and negativity, whereas Rodgers employs a very appeasing style, with youth, and emphasis on attack, lacking final product in the end, aside from Suarez. So it's not like last year where we occasionally played good football but hit the frame 67 times and played that "unlucky" card until it became nauseating, but rather down to us missing 1-2 key pieces. And, while "what if" only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, what if Skrtel doesn't make that back pass vs City, what if Glen isn't called for that foul decision vs Utd, and what if Suarez knicks that ball past Cech and slots it home..? That's 5 points, but that's also life..

      So, while nobody accepts 13th place, or results that should have gone our way but didn't as acceptable, there are some harsh realities and if nothing else Rodgers speaks the truth, not a bunch of nonsense about luck, or this or that, he's said it's the current reality of the situarion, and additionally how thin he ranks this squad to be, further reinforcing poor signings and management of those previous to him.. I don't think anyone else would get much more from Cole, Downing, Henderson and even if Carroll hadn't been loaned..

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