• Liverpool Message Board

  • Nour Nour Nov 28, 2012 23:43 Flag

    Current Situation

    How long is this going to go on for. What do we do with January around the corner. Do we stick or twist. Comments please.

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    • DSteer the difference here is that FSG went and hired BR..

      He's their man. It seems a huge slap in the face that the man they hire, then gets little money to spend in order to strengthen the team.

    • Noo Noo, got to side with PS a little here when it comes to Rafa, but to be honest I think the argument is really academic.

      Yes Rafa spent money, but he never really was given huge transfer kitties (not in comparison to Chelsea, Utd, or now City) but rather recycled money by buying and selling. Yes he made mistakes, but the question PS asked about whether based on the squad and the net money provided BR is under or over achieving is the correct question, and should be the same one applied to any manager.

      For me, when Rafa was provided money we steadily progressed. But as soon as money dried up (in fact went negative) while our expectations remained the same, we started to decline relative to clubs around us.

      In some ways in hindsight the same could be said about Roy. I still think he made some horrendous decisions in the transfer market (Konch, Poulson) but the fact is he was not given a penny to invest in the club, so why would we expect to progress?

      The bottom line is managers can make a difference but only based on what resources they have, so that is how we should measure them. But we should also judge those who provide those resources to the managers, and recognize that in the past our club has been hugely mismanaged financially, and while I think/hope our current owners are doing the right thing, we are still recovering from the major shocks we’ve suffered in the past.

    • Hi Noo Noo

      I'll leave the Rodgers/Are Liverpool over or underachieving thing as I've said my piece on that.

      On the "He spent vast amounts of sums during his time with us and much of it didn't bring anything worthwhile" ...

      1) Can I suggest you have a look at this article from 2009 which might make you rethink that ... http://bleacherreport.com/articles/146121-media-myths-rafa-benitez-and-his-transfer-history-with-liverpool-football-club

      2) As the article suggests - most of his "failures" were kids being brought for the reserve/youth team or players being bought in to be resold at a profit later. His transfers include - Fernando Torres, Xabi Alonso, Dirk Kuyt, Peter Crouch, Lucas Leiva, Martin Skrtel, Craig Bellamy, Luis Garcia, Jose Reina, Dan Agger, Yossi Benayoun, Dani Pacheco, Javier Mascherano, Raheem Sterling, Jay Spearing, Martin Kelly, Alvaro Arbeloa, Fabio Aurelio, Daniel Agger, Glen Johnson.

      3) 3+ years, 3 managers and hundreds of millions of pounds later and half a dozen of our first team were players signed by Rafa.

      As I've said before, he made mistakes but to believe that his transfer record was a disaster is ignoring the facts (sorry!).

      I wonder how long it will be before another Liverpool manager reaches two CL finals?

    • More to the point will FSG invest?

      • 1 Reply to LFC_Armchair_Supporter
      • Guys the way I see it is that FSG don't want to spend any more and the reason BR was chosen over any top flight manager is that they don't want a manager in who wants to spend and build a team but one who will do it with minimum amount ie sell before buying. BR must have bought into this policy to be given the job.
        What we needed was a manager with a pot and experience of handling big teams. As I have said before they want to be Arsenal with LFC badge.
        That is imho

    • hi as a 35 year supporter and season ticket holder, liverpool are falling into a area that makes me wonder if liverpool fc will ever return to the hights of 2005 ever again,brenden rogers is a good manager but not a great manager,for me is cv is blank,we need a manager who as a winning cv and for me rafa is the one,i know rafa had is moments but is cv shows he is a winner,

    • Hi Nour

      I am not convinced by BR and haven't been from the start (personally, I would have preferred a return to the current Chelsea boss). I posted a month ago that November was a pivotal month and debated with people on the board that we may end the month in a worse place than we were then. Unfortunately I was right. That has happened.

      We are currently sat 4pts above relegation (with a relegation '6-pointer' coming up), 10pts off 4th and 17pts off the leaders. We have played 3 of the 'big 4' teams at home in the first half of the season with only 1pt to show for it. The two other traditional 'big teams' we have played we've managed just 1pt (2pts out of 9 if you include Everton). Teams above us include West Brom, Swansea, Stoke, West Ham & Fulham.

      Those are, to coin a phrase, the facts. Despite the media love-in of all things Brendan they make are a damning indictment of BR's reign so far. Add to that some of the outrageous quotes that BR has been making and there is nothing there that has changed my mind that we have a manager who is out of his depth and is still learning at this level.

      BUT...

      having appointed BR the board have to give him resources and time to turn it round - I always think a minimum of two years in the absence of exceptional circumstances. I used to think that was restricted to having his hand in the till or shagging Joe Cole's Mrs but I'll add another one that I never thought was necessary - if we look in danger of relegation.

      December sees a run of 6 fixtures that, in most seasons, Liverpool would see as winnable. The best and still most-likely scenario is that we go on a winning streak and end the year on a high and with lots of confidence going into 2013. If we drop significant points in those 6 fixtures then we will be in real danger of going down and that is unacceptable. If that is the case he should be gone and we should keep our fingers crossed that fan-power has chased Rafa back onto the employment market.

      December is make or break for BR. I hope he makes it.

      • 3 Replies to Paddy
      • psredpool...Well...I damn well hope we make it too !!! Particularly as it could well mean if we dont a return to BENITEZas manager!!!???...Not having ANY of that if that guy is reappointed then my 55 year love affair with LFC is ....OVER !!! I will dump my Mistress without a moments hesitation. and I think there are plenty and I mean PLENTY out there who would do likewise and cash in their season tickets to those ready to watch the kind of boring dross that guy dished-up to the fans week in week out...NO THANKS !!!

      • I wonder if FSG will sack BR soon and hire Di Matteo? That would be interesting...

      • I'm also frustrated, particularly after last night where yet again our inability to score goals has bitten us again. I thought a point would have been a fair result had we more threat than a jelly fish is to a coffee grinder.

        Resources is the key. The squad has some gems and players that will develop but we need an injection of whatever Lance Armstrong was using I reckon.