Liverpool Message Board
I had wanted to try and keep it all in one thread with "another striker", but since I personally believe and want, and Rodgers has said, players are needed in other areas, wide attacking to be specific. We get alot of pace and creation there, but very little end product, and it's both scary and sad to think the effect it could have, but doesn't have on Suarez despite having a very good season. He could very well be on 15+ goals by now..
Anyways, that said, while I also hope this thread turns into Formula 1 racing, Cricket, or explaining to me the difference in size, weight and dimension of a Football and NFL Football, I feel as I've said earlier in others, it's been very unusual to hear so much chatter on this side of the pond that isn't really just repeat of what's said over there, or b*llock.s from our Bleacher Report or Goal, which are your Mirror and Daily Mail.
So obviously we have the same 4, 5, 6 names that have persisted for months and a year now, Walcott, Sturridge, Klaas, Tello and a couple of others. For me, Klass (or Llorente), Tello, absolutely no chance.. As for Walcott, it was said yesterday that Arsenal had set some type of deadline for him to sign his new deal, though I can picture Wenger on his hands and knees begging regardless of trying to be a hard ass, on top of noticing he let Theo start up front in their win vs Reading, which he scored. On Walcott it's said they will not offer him this 90-100k deal he wants nor guarantee central role, so him skipping the "deadline" makes for some interesting times at the Emirates in Jan, because he can walk for free in the summer..
Sturridge, no news, and I'm glad because I feel like everytime he comes up it's with some twisted things attached like all sorts of demands. I mean if it happens, so be it, but enough of the noise in the backgorund.
And, then there's Tom Ince, which I just read, and it's also on LFC, that Blackpool have accepted there will be bids and they will probably lose him, with a fee of 6M being the #, BUT Liverpool have a 35% sell on clause, putting them in a strong position. While Blackpool say they haven't received anything formal, or any clubs in specific, I personally believe he's as high a priority as far as getting done, as finding a good striker.
I know some will view this as a "cheap" or stupid move, but who could have envisioned what he may have been when he wasn't playing at age 18, and he's got 13 goals, 9 assists, with a classy left boot to attack from the right which is what Rodgers system requires.. I love the move and at 20 years old, he's so far advanced that I think it's a no brainer..
There's more talk of Gomis from Lyon, though for me it's just a bit odd since that would have been Comolli all day long and we haven't gone fishing in France for a while now aside from that guy Marveaux who's on Newcastle. Gomis is excellent and I'd have him for sure, but don't see it.
Then there is ALOT of Ba talk now. Apparently he also had some sort "deadline" where they needed to reach a new agreement to get rid of that 7.5M release clause and he didn't sign it.. At least that's the portrait painted here, so that sounds like someone who may want to be chased or test the market in January. The knee is always a worry, though hasn't seemed to be any issue that I can recall for the Geordies, and to be honest, above Theo and Daniel, I'd probably (while nervous of the knee no matter what) have him first for that price..
So, end of the day it's still all speculation, but at least as it stands, I think there's some decent backing behind some of the persistent names. And there's that Wilfiried Bony of Vitesse, but other than mutual interest, nothing more than everyone racing everyong for his signature. I do really love the Ince move..
Think while I totally get your point about him still being a Red, which in theory he is, we're going to have to politely agree to disagree. Truth be told, it doesn't matter anyways, because nothing will happen until the summer, he's injured now and won't be back in January.
As for where he ends up, and to really end the convo for now, I don't see West Ham going down.. they may struggle at times, but they are a poor mans' Stoke (not sure if that's a compliment or insult) and to boot, they really have no strike force worth noting outside of Cole who picked up a red and 3 games today. Sam likes his direct football, and he loves Andy, so if (and I predict they do) stay up, he'll want Andy. The only reason we loaned in the first place, is what ended up being a massive gaffe on Ayre or someone's part in not getting Dempsey with a back up plan, so in a way, Rodgers was at least smart enough to give us the option to recall him. This said, if West Ham stay up, they get a massive cash injection, I think 10M? Plus, their chairman isn't a poor guy, so it's very feasible. As for Newcastle, if they don't turn their season around, and perhaps lose Ba, then they would be the favorites and likely to spend more close to that 18-20 we'd hope for. Either way, if we get 15+, that's the best we're going to do unless he lights it up after the holidays/injury..
As for Ince, without having any inside knowledge further than anyone else, I'm under the impression he at the very least has had, or did, have the opportunity to speak on the basis of personal terms, and like I said, and you agreed, if Ayre can't get him right, then I'm really going to be pissed because all parties involved seem to be on the same page, minus a measly 2-3M. As for Sturridge, the news hear is actually stipulating, quite vehemently that the "FEE" has been agreed, but his agent is causing a thorn with sell ons and other agent bs.. So, if he comes with that baggage, then we move on, but in regards to the other stuff, he's been injured and I think he will be in their squad tomorrow, and into January..
The other name, which was one I pulled out of the sky a month ago, actually has surfaced on a suggested loan, but would be very good business irregardless of Sturridge or whoever else. Kevin Gamiero of PSG who is a very very good, young striker with experience and alot of ability. He doesn't get to play alot since the Chelsea/Madrid of France have purchased Ibrahimovic, Lavezzi and others, that have left Gamiero from being a regular to barely getting a sniff. He's got good pace, good size, and is a sharp finisher. SO, if true, again, on a loan basis is what's being suggested, no brainer for me..
There's something worth talking about for Ba since apparently they had a deadline to extend his contract and erase that 7.5M release clause, and it passed, and seems like he rejected a new offer.. so for that money and based on his knee not being a problem, I think he's a very viable option, and one I'd hope we look at too..
End of the day, we need 3-4 players minimum, and crazy enough, I've been thinking lately that going into the window that Downing really needs to play up front, if he is to play so we can give him 1 last shance or at least get his value up, and man was he on fire today.. If he can produce anything like that going forward, then I say we keep him, even if we add Ince, but Cole is a goner no matter what, and I'll pay his cab fare and flight..
Jason...still think that Andy C is a RED and likely to be back with us for start ofnext season. Cant see WHU coming up with the asked for on the agreement of 18 mill squid which leaves Newcastle as faves to sign him BUT ...theywant him for ...nowt ! Thats NOT going to happen hence further to prolonging the loan into next season when WHU dont come up with the readies end of season I see him back with us.
Looks to me from this side of the pond that neither the Sturridge or the Ince deal has happened...IF we dont get Ince then I think theresponsibility for that should be on Ayre and he should be...down the road...rapid . Why ? Because as u indicate this guy is picking fights with the wrong people and isnt doing his job effectively therefore get rid and get someone in who is up to the job. I smell something wrong with the Sturridge deal...an injury perhaps that they are trying to conceal from us at least for a while . I dont know just something about thewhole deal doesnt feel right? Anyway whatever lovely to seee the lads hit the onion bag four times today one downside ...another shaky performance from Reiner he had very little to deal with but didnt exactly deal competently with the little they through at him by contrast to the heroics of the Fulham keeper who prevented a cricket score today.
Thanks for acknowledging that was really not my intent, and quite honestly, perhaps I shouldn't have, but I had a point as far as a bigger picture. And, I know you're a fan of the lad like others, and while nobody knows what can happen in a few years, esp only being 24(in 2 weeks), he just wasn't the right buy, or a good fit, so the price tag to me is irrelevant.. Perhaps something else overlooked that really should have never let it happen was the fact we paid the money we did, WHILE he was injured and had no immediate availability or chance for much return. That said, while Torres was having a fit, he was finding form with 5 goals in 4 under KD, and we got an injured player instead.. As far as Andy goes, I hope he does well when I can root for him, but it won't be in red, and I'm of a very very strong opinion that we'll get something close to that 18M, maybe 15M, both rubbish, but certainly better than 10M, and more than deserved vs the 35M spent and his actual return..
For Andy, case closed for my part as far as talking about him. Moving forward, I think we're playing a really boring game of chess with Blackpool.. They want around 6-7M, and we offered 4M.. It's strongly suggested he's been at least able to speak and talk terms, but this insistence on not giving the 2-3M more, is annoying me, and I don't necessarily blame it all on FSG, because Ayre has a job, but he needs to pick his battles more wisely while working within their plan, and who BR wants..
Sturridge, as I've said many times, is not my first choice, probably not in my top 5 when just speaking of who we can realistically get this Jan, however, comparing him to Walcott and some odd foreign names, I do prefer him. If we toss Ba and Gamiero (PSG) who are options, then my mind changes dramatically .. While Sturridge has struggled with his time at Chelsea, he can play wide left and right through the middle which gives a potential for many exciting front 3's of Suarez/Sturridge/Sterling, or Ince, should he be done.. And, Sturridge still has a ceiling to reach, he is quite talented. Just 2+ years ago he spent the 2nd half of a season on loan with Bolton while in the EPL and scored 9 goals in 13 matches (ish).. It doesn't matter if it's Bolton, in fact it makes it look better because they were barely a relegation battler at best, and it's the EPL any way you slice it, so 9/13 is a very serious return on goals.
Not to mention, he's showed some very good skill and glimpses when playing for Chelski, along with very sharp looking at the Olympics.. Again, these are just my opinions on him and in comparison to Walcott or 1-2 others, and also again, he's not my 1st, but if the stories are true and he ends up here, there's alot more good, than bad.. If nothing else (and we're barely scratching the surface) Rodgers really gets a great return and effort from his young players.. Case in point with Sterling, Suso, Allen (Swans and now as 21-22 yrs old) Shelvey, Wisdom, and even in 2 starts, Yesil who has 0 experience in England..
Hobs...think we may be in a minority here and know that Jason didnt want to turn this thread into a discussion of Andy C and his time with us but he is STILL on the books and onlyout on LOAN.
Like u think he was brilliant in the air capable of winning everything up there from high long clearances out of deep defense and goalkicks etc to fast high crosses from the wing IF anyone was capable of delivering them to him ? He had a dynamite left boot and could turn very deftly on the proverbial sixpence rare for a lad of his size. Plus I liked the way he was capable of putting it about in the box eg his contribution v Uniturd at Anfield last season the idea of accepting 10 mill for the lad seems ludicrous especially considering the goal drought we have suffered so far this season with only Suarez seemingly capable of finding the onion bag ? Hes been very unlucky with injuries and imo deserves another shot at making the big time with us as u say hes only 23 or maybe just 24 doesnt seem like an old man to me. 12 mill for Sturridge a guy Chelski dont want ? Im not sure hes of the calibre we need Uniturd were prepared to put out 28 mill squid for RVP and what age is he 28 ? You get what u pay for and RVP seems to be paying off in spades for Uniturd this season wheraswe would rather opt for relative youth and half the price all the time but are we buying real quality or simply buying in 2nd rate players ? To qualify that I think Tom Ince is the real deal and looks like he will fit the bill hes top scorer in Championship Div with 13 goals but Sturridge Im dubious of.
I completely agree Miguel. We're ok but we can be better. I've been trying to convinve people that the whole club needed rebuilding to get it moving forward again. Such was the damage of standing still for so long and then having the guts ripped out of it through mismanagement that a fix by throwing a few pennies and buying a striker wont really resolve the issues. It goes much much deeper than that.
Looks like Sturridge and Ince are virtually done deals. January, or sooner, will tell but Brendan is being quoted as saying their (names not specified) arrival will not sort the problems at LFC and that more significant signings will come after the end of the season. He is quoted as also saying that we will then be in a far stronger position to attract players than we were last end of season. So, if it´s all true, excuses appearing even before we get pen to paper and hence it looks like we can all look forward to more one step forward and one back at least until the beginning of next season. I reckon sixth will be our finishing position with Man U, Citeh, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham or Everton finishing in front of us.
In a funny way though, I feel my confidence in Brendan improving and he clearly has a long term vision which will take lots more time to bring to fruition. He, unlike many of us on this board, seems to think that another striker is not the magic fix some of us are anticipating and I´m inclined to agree.
The noise over here is that Sturridge has agreed a £60k per week deal and everything is in place for a medical. Likewise, lots of speculation that Ince has already agreed a £25k per week deal and celebrated yesterday by buying a new Porsche! Then I think it will be a case of shipping out Cole and Downing before having a sniff elsewhere. I want Danny Rose but don't know how much the speculation carries weight with that one.
All the implications are that no 'big' deals will take place and we will look to invest seriously next summer.
- 1 Reply to Hobitez
I've read the stuff you guys seem to be seeing and hearing in much greater detail now, and it's sort of funny/ironic that the roots seemed to come from here, at least Ince, and maybe that's because FSG/Boston/Media are taking a greater interest into the club and it's doings.. That said, while I seem to hear the broad strokes, names and formalities, you will definitely be the ones to hear the little but important tid bits and finite details, like what you just said Hobs and Ince getting 25k.. I'd have no way to see or know that, but the fee of 4M seems legit.. Sturridge is a bigger name so the 60k thing (if true) is and has been all over..
I'd like to add that Miguel, thank you for re-iterating the need for more than just a striker because while everyone and their mother knows how badly I'd love Cavani, unless we could truly get him or whoever is next closest or that next tier, like Robert Lewandowski etc who we won't, we're looking at the Sturridge type etc, but we really lack a polished, composed winger.
Sterling looks to be a star, and he's played very well, but he's still learning, still making mistakes, and above all that he isn't making decisions that would appear to be more simple for the experienced/class wingers, that lead to goals or assists. I've said it in several threads, that when looking at Rodgers tactics and Swans last year, while not scoring a ton (neither did we) he got alot of goals from multiple places.. Sinclair, Dyer, Gylfi and Graham.. all 4 main focal players.. whereas we get them from 1 in Suarez.. Just imagine what his goal tally might be, if Sterling was causing terror in the box like he does, and they just needed tap ins, or a composed finish? He could score 40..
So, while Ince isn't Gareth Bale, he's far more polished, producing fantastic numbers and proper for that right side, on top of showing form that makes me believe he will be a star too.
And Colyn, for me to have harped on it for so long, not out of defense of FSG, but just simply having a strong idea what they were, are and will continue to do (unless they stun me), you are spot on, that it is a total re-building process, which is a very foreign concept, if existent at all for "big clubs" let alone followers. To be honest, what's the difference if by the end of this season our squad aside from the handful of key/class players, are gone, with 8-9 new faces (academy, resrves and both windows) are here, playing well but not to their very best with more to come, and we finish 7th, while having gotten rid of massive salaries, bad players, old players and players Rodgers long term vision/the owners vision do not belong, vs trying to struggle it out without having made the changes and finishing 7th?
None, other than in that scenario Kenny might still be in charge, and then we'd still be talking about him, his buys and if he could push on to 4th.. Along with still being faced with the wages and players we don't want/need. I don't mean to drag him or his buys into this, so hopefully the point I'm making is appreciated in support of your comments and what I've tried to as well..
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