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I haven't seen other footage of the incident either but I was 100% certain when the incident occurred that it wasn't a penalty.
Since this is the first time Ba was involved in such an incident, I'd let him off the hook this time and withdraw the 'he's trying to con the referee into awarding a pen' charge I made.
Ba has only being at SB a week or so but he's proving to be a shrewd signing for you lot than your 50m striker who seemed to have forgotten how to play the central striker role. It'd be a sad sight if Ba made to consign Torres into a bench-warmer.
Dennis Wise and Chris Coleman didn't.
What does it mean - do I think it should be a penalty?
- is it a penalty according to the rules? Well, the rules are too vague to say.
- do I think it ought to be a penalty given how the game is played? Yes. If it had been outside the box it would have been a freekick. If the keeper had nicked it rather than Ba it would have been an uncontroversial freekick for the keeper. So yes, penalties should be given consistent with these things.
- do I think it is custom and practice for referees to give penalties in this situation? I'd say they probably do more often they don't.
- if it had been in the other goalmouth and a penalty given I would not have been surprised. I might think it was a bit soft but wouldn't be moaning about injustice.
I watched the Sky film of it again last night. After the match Dennis Wise and Chris Coleman are asked to comment. They show it from a couple of different angles. There is one angle which is behind Demba Ba and to his right which I think is the main TV camera in the East stand on the half-way line, very similar to my line of sight but closer. This shows a clear collision between the right hips of the two players as they pass. Given Ba's speed, something knocking his hip like that is going to send him off-balance, which explains why his body was turning as he went down, as you can see in Slayer's clip put up here. I don't know if he could have continued running but I suspect if he had tried he would have been stumbling and turning until he went down a couple of steps later, with possible injury.
I am sure that if the referee had seen that bit of of footage before making his decision he would not have booked Ba.
If either of you see this angle and still think there was no contact, let me know.
What I see there is Ba sprinting at full speed, toe-poking the ball away from the keeper. There is some contact which is enough to knock Ba off-balance. Look how his body is turning as he goes down.
If that's a dive, I'm Tom Daley. It's completely different to the Rooney action you put up earlier. I do not think Ba is at fault at all.
If that was in the middle of the pitch it would be a freekick to Chelsea every time. And possibly/probably a booking for the other guy.
It's curious how commentary on the match, not only in this thread, has talked about this incident. In the fortieth minute Hernandez was booked for fouling Oscar. Oscar had won the ball and Hernandez ran up behind him and absolutely cynically hacked his legs away with no attempt to get the ball. Shouldn't that have been a red card?
Don't take my 'booted into row Z' remarks literally.
You're normally forthright in these types of scenarios, Rob. I'm a bit surprised that you're even defending Ba's action, I hope it's not club allegiance that is clouding your judgement on this occasion.
Yes, there was slight collison between the two but not enough to bring Ba crashing to the floor, he did that in order to fool the referee. There's so many shirt tugging inside the penalty area that don't result into the award of penalties but mostly penalised as an infringement outside the box. I think you've got to treat the Ba incident as the same, as it would be ridiculous to award penalty for any soft contact in the penalty box.
I've got a clear video clip of the incident in link below, have a look again:
Thanks for the reply which was probably more gracious than my slightly tongue-in-cheek post deserved.
I genuinely don't think it was a pen - I really didn't see any contact - but, to be fair, I didn't see it as a dive either. I think Ba was readjusting his feet having poked the ball past the keeper and, seeing the ball had gone, just hit the ground because it was easier than trying to keep running. He didn't appeal as far as I could see. I think I would give him the benefit of the doubt.
I will watch it again because my impression is the keeper impeded him.
If there was no contact and Ba deliberately went down then yes, I would say he was trying to cheat. In the context of this thread I would say it was embarrassing. But that isn't how I saw it.
I've just watched the taped version from the telly last night definitely not a penalty.
Ba toe-pokes it away from the keeper before he can get to it and then falls over without, from what I could see (and I've watched in slow-mo several times, any contact being made. You'd know what people would be saying if it was Suarez.
If you were being very, very charitable you'd say that he lost his footing at the wrong moment but, on the balance of probabilities you'd have to say "Dive" & "Cheat".
I'm not surprised you're not embarrassed Robert - after all, it was a Chelsea player trying to cheat in this instance.
Robert I'm not going to convince you Suarez is not a cheat, its clearly what you think of him. That fact is obvious, and seems to cloud all discussion you have about him on here. But of course you are free to hold whatever opinion you have about him, although telling people you don't have a biased view, when you are still posting and throwing up even more reasons no matter how tenuous they are that you must be right and I'm wrong, despite telling us on an earlier post (was it early today or even yesterday) that you thought it not worth continuing discussion, is sort of telling that there is a certain level of fixation.
As for the embarrassment factor, I think most, I know I did, early if not on their first post on this thread on that subject answer you whether we felt any embarrassment or not. But you’re still banging on about it. Why I'm not sure. I'm not embarrassed, and you telling me again and again that I should be really is not going to change my mind. Embarrassment is an emotion, not a rational decision, so fine tell us your opinion, we'll debate it and agree or disagree, but not sure why you also need to tell us how we should feel.
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