• Liverpool Message Board

  • mel n mel n Jan 16, 2013 07:26 Flag

    Gazumped by Southampton again.

    First it was Gaston Ramirez and now its Vegard Forren. If the news that Southampton are about to sign Liverpool target Forren is true, then we should be worried, very worried indeed.

    I have no idea who Forren is but if its true that we are interested in him and he ends up at St Marys instead, then we should stop deluding ourselves that we are a top club and accept what we have now become, mid table at best. It pains me when we lose out to the likes of Man U, Man C, Chelsea and Arsenal, or even to Spurs and I can live with that, but the Saints, really? First Sylfi, then Dempsey and now Forren, I would not be surprised if we lose out on Ince as well, a player that we even have a discount option on. I can understand and grudgingly accept financial prudency but we now have gone past that stage, Liverpool have officially become penny pinchers who will only settle for bargains to try and take them to the top. It appears that the capture of Assaidi for 2.4 million is now going to be the norm rather than the exception and that the only reason we got Sturridge was because nobody else wanted him. I would not be surprised if Joe Allen is the last player valued at 15 million or more that we will see in a long time. In the mean time it is the bargain sales for us in the hope of unearthing another Michu.

    Maybe Armchair is right, what we need is a sheik or Russian billionaire gangster to buy us in order to become relevant again.

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    • mel...u get what u pay for...hopefully. Ive been saying its all down to the FSG and their partnership with BR...SUCCESS ON THE CHEAP OR...ITS NO SUCCESS AT ALL FOR US. Our only hope of having a serious shot at hitting the big time again is if FSG get an offer from a gulf state consortium with plenty of cash to splash. I hate to say this too but I think we are all deluding ourselves that we are anything but a team that is going to flounder around in the lower end of the upper half of the table or worse.....
      Allen Borini Sahin these are top drawer World Class signings ? We seem incapable of beating anyone in the upper half of the table BR is constantly bleating that we have a THIN SQUAD but surely if that was the case which it is then its up to him as manager to address this concern with the OWNERS !Not to be telling everybody and his dog in the sporting press here that that is the case. Then its up to FSG to get moving during this transfer window and rectify the managers problem ? Do u think John Henry in his open letter to the support was honest ? Liverpool FC as a franchise in the long run is always going to be a good hedge for their money it will never lose value as long as they hold on long enough they will make a very healthy profit on sale of the club to whoever...I just hope when they sell its to the likes of Billionaire Russian gangsters or Oil rich billionaires out of the Gulf...and please NO MORE YANKS !!!

      • 2 Replies to colin
      • I don't know if anyone has done the sums, but it seems to me that your assumption that if they hang on long enough they'll make a profit might be a little wide of the mark.

        How much is the club worth on the open market right now?
        How much of their own money did FSG put in to clear our debt and buy the club?
        How much have they spent on transfers and wages so far with every window so far under their ownership having a positive net spend?
        How much has the club actually generated since they've been in charge with no champions league TV dosh?

        I'm not sure what that adds up to, and maybe someone can run the numbers, but it seems on first blush that they might have to wait a long time before they see any real return.

      • Yep no more Yanks as owners.. mega rich arabs are the only ones who'll make us how we'd like to be..

        Thats a club whose a dangerous threat to MANSHITTER UTD..

        Also get rid of Rodgers.. he never should've been made LFC manager.

    • Lot of If's in that Mel, so not sure how accurate your assumptions are. However let's for one moment say you are correct, and we've been outbid for a player by Southampton. Does it really worry you that a player destined for the South Coast is not coming to us?

      Actually if the player wants to play for the Saints, and the Saints (but no-one else) rates him as a prem player, then I'd say maybe it’s a good thing he's not coming to us.

      Yes we want bargains, or better said we want value for money. The more money we can save on one player, whether transfer fee and or wages, is more we can spend on the next player. Paying whatever it takes, even more than we value a player for is just plain stupid business, whether we're on a shoestring budget like Everton, or have the riches of Chelsea or City.

      He might have been a good player for us, at the right price, but if someone is willing to pay more, the right thing is to move on to the next target. If you've never walked away from a bad deal, I have to assume you've wasted a lot of money over the years.

      • 1 Reply to dsteer_lfc_68
      • You completely miss my point Dave, as I said I have no idea who Forren is and for all I know he might be a donkey wearing football boots, my point is that we are now being outbid by the likes of Southampton, a team that was in the third tier of English football 2 years ago and are not owned by an Arab sheik or Russian billionaire gangster.

        I am not debating on the merits of the players we missed out on as Hobsey has decided to focus on but the manner that we were beaten to those signings. It seems now that we can not compete with anyone over players no matter how small the difference in what the other team is offering. Our powers that be seem to think that a player will forego everyone just to come to us, those days are now fast dwindling away, our being mid table is making sure of that. We can not expect to always buy players that we are the only ones interested in as the most likely scenario is that the particular player is not that good anyway if nobody else is interested in him. As for Hobsey's assessment of the targets we missed out on, Robert's take on it is spot on, it does sound like sour grapes.

    • Firstly, Gaston Ramirez had agreed personal terms then LFC pulled out of the deal because of the agents monster fee, he has been injured most of the season so doesnt look too much of a problem.
      Gylfi Sigurdson has flopped so far at Spurs as largely has Clint Dempsey, who by the way, by not becoming a LFC player has unearthed Raheem Sterling by not occupying his position.

      You haven't seen Forren play, nor even heard of him before so what is the point of your post? He is a solid defender but lacking in pace, the only plan for signing him is because Coates is desperate to go out on loan to get some football and we need cover. Personally, I vastly prefer Coates to Forren anyway so if Southampton want to keep paying over the odds for players then good luck to them and their bank account.

    • Where did you read that (link please) or are you getting paranoid again.

    • Firstly the Sneijder thing is not dead I'm lead to believe. Good I say. Why? I have a couple of reasons.

      Firstly a player of that ilk (playing as we all know he can and fit) will make a huge difference to our team. We will not be a title winning side but it will make a difference and I believe his addition might make the difference between 7-8th place and 5-6th. That's a big step up as it gets harder up there.

      Secondly most of you know that I firmly believe that the midfield is key to any teams success. I believe that if you have a spongey midfield, you wont succeed. Sneidjer, playing well can fill that void in our team. He can and does dictate play, he fits within the Rodgers style of pass, move and maintain possession. He could fit my profile of a midfield general. A player we certainly need.

      Thirdly, he is a marquee signing that people will notice. Remember Robinho going to City. That signing (even though we're all sure he was going to the other side of Manchester) made people notice City and it showed their intent. Sneidjer may have a similar effect. You only need to see how many column inches there are in the paper about his signature.

      Also, We need another leader on the pitch! A player that gives some direction to the younger players in the team. They will notice and learn from him. Allen in particular would benefit greatly from him. As an example I believe that Ramsey at Arsenal really developed playing around Fabregas. Both were young but you can see that Ramsey was trying to play the same way.

      Lastly is exposure and publicity. He is a player that everyone knows about. The publicity will be a good thing.

      The downsides are the risks I guess. He hasn't played in a while and there's talk that he hasn't hit the same levels of two years ago. He's 28-29 years old I believe so there should be a year or two left in the tank I would think. Perhaps more if we look at Gerrard, Lampard etc.

      Wages will be interesting as we cant and it's probably suicide to match his Ineter wages or Gallatasaray offer. I did hear that he was willing to take a cut for the right club.

      We'll see............

    • has anyone wondered why this "missing piece of the title winning side" is not being chased by everyone? If he is such a bargain why no Man Utd bid? It's not as if they are overloaded with midfield playmakers!Arsenal? Man City? any German big guns looking at him?
      Spain? Italy? no takers apart from a team in Turkey and us?
      You will not be buying the guy of 2-3 years ago. Just as we didn't buy the joe cole of 3 years ago.
      If something sounds too good to be true it normally is too good to be true.
      You cannot guarentee that he will bring the title,success etc.You can only hope.
      Certain people on here, and we know who they are, who are demanding his purchase will be the first ones to moan about paying millions in wages etc for a has been!He will go from missing jigsaw piece to waste of money in a season.I'd love him to prove me wrong, but history as shown he is more likely to be another joe cole rather than a Gary Mac.

    • He's the player for us as you say he's the right fit.. and could orchestrate things on the pitch..

    • Worry NOT, mel.

      I think the fact Liverpool didn't follow up their widely reported interest in Ramirez suggests to me that your scouting people concluded that he's probably not up to the standard of players you require to challenge at the top echelon of the league. For example, we've being linked with Yann M'Villa for the last 3 seasons but for some reasons, Arsenal are yet to make a move for him despite the fact that his transfer fee is affordable to us and the player himself is yearning for a move to a top club like Arsenal. Maybe the same applies to Ramirez and Forren. Both may not be seen as the type of players Liverpool needed.

    • I do agree with almost all of that when it comes to assessing what the player can deliver. However the key piece here which I was trying to point out to Sofa and Mel is what is all that worth?

      To be honest I'm not sure myself, but I am pretty sure it does not add up to the just under 200K per week Inter give him right now, and I'm not even sure (assuming reports are correct) it equals the 160K a week the Turkish giants have offered him.

      Now I'm not saying we only take him if we can get him on the cheap, but I am saying we only pay him what we think he's actually worth. We've freed up 90k+ a week by getting rid of Cole (who was not adding much) so we have some freedom to bring in a player on higher wages (assuming he can actually contributes), but we should not buy just because the player is a nice shiny thing, at any price, but only if we see real value.

    • I sincerely hope you're wrong.


      Robert

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