Liverpool Message Board
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Jason...First lets look at "those buys"...Hendo,hes come good hes a valuable member of the squad and has shown good form recently. Stuart Downing,hes shown real commitment doneeverything that has been asked of him tactically and is a much improved player and Id say these days is considered to be an automatic starter he looks hungry to succeed, Louis Suarez ...what can I say Im searching for an adequate superlative ? Andy Carrol has shown some good form for WHU since coming back from injury but could represent a financial loss to the club if sold on end of season a loss I estimate taking into acc the 3 mill loan fee paid by WHU to us of probably approx 15 mill thats a pretty heavy loss on investment that I will admit but dont tell me the other buys havent overall been worth the money and as such should be sold...u want to sell Hendo Downing and Suarez...oh no my friend. They all played today.
Now lets look at BR's buys...TEN AND A HALF MILL QUID FOR ...BORINI ? 16 MILL for Joe Allen who it seems must now undergo a shoulder op...3 mill for Assaidi he hasnt proved himself is rarely used as a sub Coutinho 10 mill looks very promising Sturridge for me looks a bargain basement buy at 12 mill compare that withthe Borini buy ??? So overall Kennys buys look pretty solid investments right now with the exception of Andy C so when hes sold on he could represent a loss of approx 15 mill. Now think Hendo held value Downing held value Suarez value sky is thelimit for possibly currently the best player in the world Kennys signing for the club but all we ever seem to hear is whinging about the price of Andy Carrol nobody moaning about the 22 mill for Suarez eh. BR's buys Couhtino worth the money surely Borini value NOTHING seriously perhaps a couple mill Joe Allenj on curent form about at best 5 mill Assaidi at besrt a mill so being charitable overall a loss of perhaps 20 mill at current value but lets say Sturridge and Couhtino worth a couple each more than we paid and working out asset value Kenny comes out way on top in terms of his "buys" for the club. So not sure just how this legend of Liverpool FC has damaged the club financially ?
I didn't write the articles I read, or make those my own quotes, they belong to someone else. I also did say I want to sell Suarez EVER, I asked it once as a question playing devil's advocate.. If someone offered me 75M, then yes I'd probably consider it, but other than that, no way.
In reference to the other players, it took public and private comments, of a harsh nature, from Brendan Rodgers for Downing, Henderson, and Enrique to all realize that they were underperforming, would be allowed to leave, and wouldn't have a role in the squad if they didn't improve. Everyone criticized Rodgers for it, yet now Downing is a very valuable player, but he's on 70-80k wages, so rest assured if he doesn't take a wage cut, he'll be off. Jordan is showing he's better than he was last year, but he's still not justified the 16M tag he came with by any means, and while I think he can get alot better, unlike City or Chelsea, we can't afford to have that type of money sitting on the bench. Enrique has become a revelation going forward, also as a result of Rodgers public foot up his #$%$
In regards to those 2 (not enrique) Henderson and Downing, the 35M spent on Andy and let us not forget our friend and contender for Player of the Year, Uncle Charlie Adam who mostly rides the bench at mighty Stoke, who cost another 8-9M. Those 4, not including wages, cost close to 80M Pounds... If I said "Hey Colin, you're in charge, go buy whoever you want for LFC as the manager, here's 80M pounds", would you have bought any of those 4 players? I'm pretty certain, seeing you as the general football fan as you are, you would have bought the very best players you could from anywhere in Europe. Yes, I know Carroll came before them, but when the chairman of Bayern says 21M was laughable in trying to buy Mario Gomez, or De Llaurentisof Napoli said "42 Million" for Edinson Cavani, the buy of Andy Carroll for 35M to replace Fernando Torres, who at the time was in great form under Kenny, looks absolutely ridiculous. For 7M more, we could have had Cavani, and for 30M we could have Gomez.. you can look those 2 up by the way.. but it puts things in perspective.
I think after 3 games you decided Borini was no good and a complete waste of money, and to be fair, I can't really support him much because he hasn't done much, but he'll have missed 6 months of the season from 2 injuries, and is a 21 yo striker who changed 6 clubs in 2 years, and lived in 9 different places. I think he outta get a full summer's worth and if he can't hack it, he's gone next January. As far as Allen goes, I agree the fee was excessive for sure, but there wasn't a single person on this board in the first 2 months complaining when he was winning player of the month, and superb, but since has lost form and broken down (he now needs shoulder surgery) and is only 22 years old. So, much like Henderson, who's just slightly younger, he certainly can improve, but he won't grow any taller unfortunately. As for Assaidi, we all have to wait and see.. when he has played, he's been nothing short of exciting, but he's a bit slight, so my guess is he needs to bulk up this summer, and if it doesn't work out, we paid 3M.. no biggie
I'm not blaming Kenny for the club's situation, but I am reciting quotes found in several places, and the signings that didn't work out, Adam, Carroll and possibly Downing or Henderson come this summer, certainly hurt, considering what was paid, what the return was, and what will be recouped.
- 2 Replies to Jason
Jason..am very familiar with Edison Cavanni ... would give 45 mill in a heartbeat for the man ! I wouldnt even listen to silly money offers for Louis he IS FRANCHISE LFC and the man to build the team around. Sell him for silly money 80mill and buy two others who turn out to be duds no thanks we have the real thing in Louis PROVEN WORLD CLASS STRIKING TALENT and for me currently best performing striker in Europe.
FYI....Charlie Adam was signed for 7 mill from Blackpool FC...I would have bought Charlie Adam for 7 mill yes. Would I have sold Torres YES for 50 mill Id have pulled Abramovitchs hand off !!! Torres contrary to what u say had not been in good form the whole season. Would I have bought Andy C for 35 ...NO !!! Would I have signed Hendo for 16 mill ? ...No. For half that ...Yes. Would I have signed DOWNING for 20 mill ....No...for half that ? DEFO yes. Assaidi for three...Yes. Joe Allen for 16 mill ...no...half that ...Yes. BTW also read that BR said hed been struggling for weeks with a paersistent shoulder injury and now has to have an op...bad news....but under such circumstances if BR knew this why was he even on the bench let along brought on as a sub and for me he didnt make the difference and I would have left Sturridge on. Would I have signed Sturridge for the money...Yes ! Would I have signed Couhtino for the money yes. Borini for ten and a half mill squid.... wouldnt have signed him on a free from AS ROMA who yet again mugged us. When will we learn to stay away from this bandit club ??? Overall I m confident that we are headed in the right direction but its going to take another 9 efforts like Yesterday to get the job done this season no sliding back into lazy habits at Southampton !
Colin I think it's a little harsh in comparing Downing and Henderson to Borini and Allen. It's taken quite a long time for them to show any type of form or quality while Borini and Allen have hardly had a season. However, I share your concerns on Borini while Allen is a player I'm prepared to sit on. There's somehing about him that gives me encouragement that he'll come good. He looks calm on the ball and that, to me is an indicator of quality.
Carroll was a £35m bomb that's for sure but assuming that Newcastle have been paid in full then I suspect that his purchase is included in the account figures we've just seen. Torres' fee was. Therefore if we sold him then it can be considered as money in the bank. At the moment he's an asset that's doing nothing for the club and is therefore a waste. He comes back and plays or he gets sold. Otherwise he's a pointless asset. So in a twisted accounting type of way the loss in his purchase has already been incurred. It can be argued that we've already taken the hit on him by agreeing to the £35m fee and paying it! It's very frustrating that it's another example of our really poor performance in the transfer market of late. Remember that we also pay more to agents than any other club as well and the frustration is increased. It had to stop. I think they're getting a grip on it now and thanks to Jason's insight it's why Gaston Ramirez is at Southampton and not Anfield. I'm also really encouraged that at long last we've got 2 players in Sturridge and Coutinho that are affordable and have hit the ground running.
As I said above the debt is not a huge issue but our costs are. I would really like to see a comparison with this years costs and a full breakdown of what they are. Pipe dream though, I'll have to wait.
The revenue is also a concern but it's going up despite the lack of CL football but the gap between us and Them is pretty huge. That's the true scale of the errors made by Moores and our previous owners.