Liverpool Message Board
I know iris ridiculous to compare two different managers but can't stop to compare. With all due respect for both, I think KK has pushed us back to at least 5 years and for me he is the culprit for those silly transfer deals. Even fans like us can not understand the logic of paying this inflated price for the likes of Hendo, Downie & above all AC. Imagine those transfer with the likes of Goetze, Lewdonski etc. and think about the potential loss we have had because of these transfers.
Not only transfer but also the way Liverpool lost control in second half of the season11-12 when KK was in charge. We were 18th in terms of points during that second half. Also, there was no strategy and players were plaing like headless chicken.
Most importantly, because of his failure in transfer, FSG has decided not to overspend in transfers to strengthen the team.
On the other hand, BR deserves applaud for getting higher position in the league with thin squad and almost no money to bring in players.
Guys, I have all the respect for KK as a player but he came out to manage a team after a long time so it was bound to happen. He was appointed as a manager and suddenly was poured with 100 mil. He went for brits only and without thinking of price. All u guys trying to mask the fact that every manager knows tha transfer price of the player before the deal is done. So KK must be held responsible for the flop show. Imagine what would be value of AC, Downie & Hendo combined?? IMO hardly 30 Mil. We lost almost 40 Mil on this business only.
Further, talking about the condition of the club, It was far better when KK took over then BR took over. KK had all the money to invest plus far better players. On the other hand, BR was given ateam that was shattered, many players wanted to leave and very tight fund to spend. We had such a thin squas that we had to make Stirling a part of regular 11. Plus we had only 1 striker during the first half of the season. Also, BR got a team which would be relegated if the points of last half season was considered.
Still BR managed to infuse confidence & belief in the team outcome of which shows in second half of the season. Meanwhile BR also involved to get rid of deadwood.
Finally, emotions are different and reality is different. Give credit where Is due.
- 1 Reply to tauseef
A lot of what you say has some truth to it, however I'm not sure it takes into account all the facts. Yes KK had way more funds available to him that BR, so for mistakes made in the transfer market he has to take responsibility. I also agree with you that while the manager is not the man negotiating the contracts for the transfer fees he does have an idea of the money being spent, and knows full well money spent on one area of the squad is money not available for another area. However while I agree with you that Carroll was a mistake, not sure the rest add up to a "flop show". BR has benefited from both Hendo and Downing, and while opinions may differ on if we paid too much or not, neither I'd say have flopped.
But I would disagree with you on the conditions at the club when both managers took over. Maybe you don't remember the state of affairs when KK came in, but we were much closer to repeating the nose dive Leeds took than the relative stability BR walked into. Also the squad was a mess, Konch at LB, Poulsen in the center. We were heading to the wrong end of the table fast. KK raised money by selling Torres (that is where most of his money came from btw) brought us Suarez, took us from 17th to 6th, and did the major axe work needed to cut away the deadwood. It was KK who got rid of Itandje, Babel, Konchensky, Poulsen, Janovich, El Zhar, N'Gog, and Dengen. Was his in's and out's perfect, maybe not, but not sure they were that terrible either.
But that brings me to my last point, I wonder sometimes why so many on here have such a need to look at things always as a zero sum game. A manager or a player is always defined as a hero or a donkey, but never in between. For me neither KK or no BR were perfect, but nor were they complete failures (throw in Rafa or Houllier). But they both came to us in different circumstances and were asked to do different jobs. One was asked to save the club from disaster, the other to take the club forward.
I've never read such ridiculous statements since everyone of Armchairs posts !!
One thing KK didn't have as I've said before on here, was Lucas all season who surprisingly tied in with our season getting better this year when he came back.
I quote "On the other hand, BR deserves applaud for getting higher position in the league with thin squad and almost no money to bring in players." So one place higher no trophy and no visits to Wembley requires praise does it?
I can't believe people still criticise Downing and Henderson who I feel were 2 of our most consistent players this year. They've both scored more goals, than Wellbeck, Carrick,Nani, Valencia,Giggs and Cleverly who although 3 of these are the future of England and one a striker, that none of these 6 players have scored more than 2 goals !
I know it's in the past now and I hope BR does better next year, but I don't think Kenny was too far away and it's very disrespectful to comment otherwise.
KK had his time in 80's it was different style of football.. but it suited KK's style.. sadly he couldn't adapt.. so hence why we suffered the last time he was LFC manager.. He was out of touch.. we wanted him cos remembered him for days of old.. rather than a manager who'd been out of the game as a manager.. If he'd stayed in management then it would've been vastly different.
How can you say King Kenny has pushed us back 5 years without knowing the full facts of what goes on behind closed doors within Anfield.
Kenny Dalglish is a legend who stepped in to support the club in a time of turmoil, however this seems to have been forgotten by many fans.
Brendan Rodgers never did tell us who were the 3 names in those envelopes?
People should remember that legends are established over time and not simply a title that is given!
King Kenny is legend!!
- 2 Replies to andy
I agree Andy, I think fans forget what a dark place we were in when KK took over. Sliding down the table, and falling apart at the seams. Some can legitimately call out the overspending done under the KK tenure, however if we want to talk about bad signings can I just mention Paulson and Konchesky!
For me KK steadied the ship, and got us back on track. He along with the owners arrested a slide that if it had continued could very well turned us into the next Leeds Utd. I think the state we were in was at least that bad.
However despite stopping the slide, and in fact for a while pulling us back in the right direction, by the end of his time, we were slipping back again on the pitch (but not off the pitch which is credit to the owners and while some don't like to hear this, to Arye who is their hands on the wheel). So overall I'd say he took us at least 2 steps forward in turning things around, but also was beginning to move a step in the wrong direction at the end of the day.
For me because KK was a childhood hero, it was hard to see him sacked, but prompt action by the owners was right for the club both in bringing him in, and in asking him to move on. For BR time will tell, however so far it looks like we are moving in the right direction so far.
I think both comments above make valid points. No we do not know what went on but the balls ups made by the club are truly spectacular. Sadly Kenny was the manager when the latest round started to go awry.
For me Rodgers deserves credit for sorting the place out and setting a direction for the club. That takes courage because the road can be rough and patience is always thin.
We now need stability built on a solid foundation of playing in a particular way with good solid emthods and shrewd investment. That is happening slowly but surely. And NO MORE BALLS UPS!
There's no magic bullet for improving our position other than doing everything better. I think we and QPR can both say that throwing money at it willy nilly doesn't work either.