Newcastle United Message Board
No matter how one twists or turns it, IMO not too many people should have expected United to win or draw. Their result is a lot better than ours no matter what the reason. Why should we be jealous or worried about that? We don't compete with them in the CL anymore. Big deal.
TBH I thought it was great result for Man U obviously much better than what we managed. I for one hope they knock Bayern out. I am not like most on here who hate Arsenal or Man U so much that I always want them to lose. In addition the better the PL does in the CL the more points the PL gtes which might mean we get to hold onto 4 CL places. We lose that 4th spot and Arsenal can forget about CL football.
I also love Rooney's dive getting Sweinsteiger a red card. Bayern out smarted or out "experienced" us with all their theatrics and now they were on the receiving end of it. I hope Man U knock them out.
To some extend we did shoot ourselves in the foot. On the other hand who knows where we could have ended up. That is why for me we will have 3 pressing priorities we need to address before the WC:
1. nr 1 priority should be to get to the bottom of our training methods and medical staff expertise. It is hard to imagine these two sides of our club don't contribute to our ridiculously poor injury record. If we did shout ourselves in the foot, the first bullet went in this category. It is hard to imagine for me that with Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshire and Ozil available we would not have gained a few more points.
our players are too often injured for it to be a coincidence and our injury prognosis our too faulty to be bad luck.
Ramsey out 27 December. Initial prognosis: back in 3 weeks on the 31st of Jan it was 6 weeks.
Ox: out the first game of the season initial diagnosis six weeks, he was out for 5 months.
Ozil: out against Bayern, initial diagnosis 3 weeks, still out
Podolski: Injured hamstring before the PL started, initial diagnosis 3 weeks, was out for 4 months.
It does not seem we have a proper grip on why our players get injured and how long the recovery should be.
Unless we manage to get to the bottom of this and manage to keep our squad intact (mostly) we will always be "light" comes this time of the season.
2. second priority we need a top striker with pace
3. third priority we need another pacey box-to-box Flamini with leadership abilities. Arteta was great but doesn't have the legs anymore.
3a. We need a pacey left winger. Draxler!!!!
- Govinda Govinda Mar 31, 2014 09:33 Flag
The only good thing about Moyes failing (if he fails- remember Rodgers took a season to put his stamp on the way Pool play) would be that the next manager would not follow SAF but Moyes. This can make a big difference if you ask me. I would rather be compared to Moyes than to SAF the legend.
But, as you say, if Moyes stays and fails next season (having spend a small fortune in the process), this would be quite a disaster.
PS I don't like Van Gaal and think he is over rated, but he has won his share of trophies in 3 different leagues and in Holland they believe it is certain he will go to Spurs, if he does well for them and takes to the PL quickly, it might get very crowded at the top of the PL.
- Govinda Govinda Mar 31, 2014 07:35 Flag
To me Everton are the most impressive team in the PL ahead of Liverpool. Sure Rogers has masterminded a fantastic turn around at Liverpool in 2 years time but he had a better squad when he arrived and invested wisely over the summer. Everton on the other hand lost one of their best players and have no budget to speak of, yet Martinez has raised them to a whole different level of play within one season. To me that is manager of the year material.
This is not a dig at Moyes, but at the moment Man U are playing the way Everton used to play, and Everton are playing at a level and sophistication they never reached under him. This must be tough for Moyes, not only does he have a fail for his first year at Man U but if he blames the squad and says not even SAF could do better than he is doing, how does he explain Matinez doing a much better job than he has ever done at Everton?
I am very worried indeed by our game against Everton.
- Govinda Govinda Mar 30, 2014 09:19 Flag
I am happy with the result, not so much in the way in which it came about. City's goal was a carbon copy of the goals we ran into against Chelsea and Liverpool in the both Sagna and Gibbs were caught too far up the pitch and with the loss of possession that gave City all the space they need. Neither Sagna nor Gibbs made it back before the goal was scored.
We could have won this game and I guess that is the good news, but we lacked a lot in the final 3rd. Wish we would have given Ox and Sanogo 20 minutes instead of 10.
If we don't lose to Everton we look good for 4th and our run in will now be easier (on paper).
- Govinda Govinda Mar 26, 2014 13:12 Flag
Although I don't rate it, I won't argue there was no improvement in results if we win the FA cup. I am more worried looking to next season, seeing how well Rodgers does and assuming City and Chelsea will get better.
If Wengers stays there is always the risk he will be loyal to average players like Giroud and Arteta and continue to play central midfielders like Rosicky and Cazorla out wide. This will likely lead to the same pattern we have seen over the last 9 years.
I hope Wenger will show us, like he did (in a way) last summer, that he is willing to spend money and I hope he wakes up to the realization that there is no shame in buying 3 ready to contribute players. Ozil, even if he faded, had a huge impact on the squad. Imagine what a world class striker and winger (Draxler) and a tough midfielder (Lars Bender?) could do for us.
Even top teams like Bayer, Barca and Real continue to strengthen every season despite winning trophies.
If we don't strengthen but just bring in bodies we will go backwards. To me we can not count on Giroud, and Arteta to win us the big games. We need Suarez instead of a Giroud and a Yaya instead of an Arteta. Neither can we continue to play central midfielders without devastating pace out wide - they constantly drift to the center and leave huge spaces out wide for the opponents to explore.
- Govinda Govinda Mar 26, 2014 12:50 Flag
It is hard to disagree with his assessment and I sort of agreed with his Wilshire assessment. I do think in Wilshire's case it is a combo of many injuries and no leaders or role models to teach him the trade.
But how can we build on the Ramsey's, Theo's, and Wilshere's if we know they won't stay healthy? No doubt these guys are good players when fit but you can't be good or develop as a young player when you spend large parts of your careers out injured.
Scholes wasn't too biased either as he ripped into Man U as well.
- Govinda Govinda Mar 26, 2014 07:05 Flag
Look Fab I will try to stay as optimistic and supportive as I can until the end of the year. And yes the fact we came from 0-1 down to go up 2-1 was good, but to me at this level, and at this time of the season, we can't "would have, could have, should have" and "unlucky" we simply have to get results against these types of opponents. Liverpool and City win convincingly all the time. You want to compete for the title, you need to to win these games and to win them with this team that we played yesterday.
(It hurt that my beloved Flamini was the one with the own goal.)
But the wheels are coming of, as they do each season at some point. The players on the pitch today should have been good enough to be able to win this game. No excuse. I'll refrain from further comment for now as I don't want to unload my frustration on this forum and will take a timeout before I comment further.
- Govinda Govinda Mar 25, 2014 09:08 Flag
In all fairness, it seems to me that even if Wenger realized what game Moureen was playing it was over befrore he could really respond IMO. You go down 1-0 to a Moureen team playing at home inside 5 minutes and it is all over you go down 2-0 inside 8 minutes, there is not much left to save if you ask me.
Sure you can try to prevent the 6-0 by closing up shop but what does that really do?
It seems to me, he should have brought on Flamini as left back when Gibbs went of rather than Thomas V. Flamini has been a good left back and is more of leader and we needed a leader. But in the end this would have been rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic if you ask me.
The big mistake IMO was the starting line-up and was playing too attacking from the get go. I had hoped, and even posted, that we try to sit back and defend and see if we can hit them on the break. A win was more important to Moureen than to us IMO. Had we defended as a team, Chelsea would have had to play on our half in less space and would have had to take more risks. It doesn't look pretty but we are capable of doing it. We did it against Spurs and have done it more often this season once we take a lead. It plays to our strengths with regard our defenders and our lack of pace at the moment.
- Govinda Govinda Mar 25, 2014 08:56 Flag
Well let's hope it does not happen again - getting caught out like this. And lets hope we will not play with the break on against City the way we did against ManU after the previous shock defeat. But first things first - a win tonight would go a long way to steadying the ship.
- Govinda Govinda Mar 25, 2014 06:45 Flag
Fab I can's disagree with your assessment of Moureen's tactics, but to me this is not the first time these tactics are used against us and it is something we should have been prepared for. Everyone knows our full backs tend to be high on the pitch and leave gaps and that Mert is vulnerable to this. Moureen is infamous for his "defend and counter" tactics and the spaces we leave are mostly behind our full backs when they go up too high and don't track back in time when we lose the ball. This something, IMO, we should have fixed after the Liverpool/City game who used this exact same tactic. Until we fix this, every team is going to try to execute this tactic and teams with skill and pace will be successful.
It does not help we don't have true wingers, forcing our full backs to play that role. Put Walcott on the right and Draxler on the left and there is less need for Gibbs or Sagna to spend so much time high on the pitch.
What worries me is that, with all due respect, you and I, see these recurring faults and Moureen broadcasts them, that Wenger seems perplexed as to why we get slaughtered 3 times in the same way.
Can you really say "no point in pointing the finger"? To me in sports and with scores like this, you have to be able to point the finger in order to fix the problem. These results are either caused by individual errors, collective errors or wrong tactics if you can't point the finger to one of or all of these how are you going to fix it?
We need to play differently against teams with the skills to expose our lack of pace. Mert is not going to become any faster and neither is Arteta or Cazorla or Podolski, Giroud or Sagna. So the way I see it we either change tactics or we change personnel this summer. Even Flamini and Gnarby could inject pace into the current available squad.
I also think we should stop carrying players in our squad who are not ready when they are needed. Why have we not played Gnarby in recent games or Sanogo or Kallstrom
- Govinda Govinda Mar 24, 2014 15:17 Flag
I would play Mata in that nr 10 position any day if I were ManU. But what to do with Rooney? Play him as a your striker upfront? Play a 4-4-2 with RVP (when fit)? It seems to me that Rooney and RVP have indeed not clicked as a pairing.
If I were a Man U fan I would have trouble trusting Moyes with spending £100-200. If he get's it wrong the next manager won't get an other £100 to put it right and might find the team in a worse position than it will be in this summer. Not sure if you can afford to fail getting into the CL 2 years in a row and Liverpool will only get better and for the moment I don't see you bridge the gap with Chelsea or City in one summer. That leaves Arsenal who could either continue to spend more money than in previous seasons and improve their squad, like they did on Ozil and thus progress over this year, or revert back to ineptness and indecisiveness and take a relative (to Liverpool, Chelsea and City) step back. Spurs could also be better than last season specially if indeed Van Gaal (who I don't like) takes over.
Must be an uncomfortable time for ManU fans. It is one thing to miss CL football it is an other thing to not be sure if you have the right manager. Maybe a strong run in will give an indication that Moyes is getting a grip on things but to me that should include a draw against City and wins in all you other remaining PL games and at least one draw against Bayern. The way I look at it your biggest indication will be when you play Everton. If you win that game you might be on the up and up, a draw and or a loss and I think you might not have much of an indication you have the right manager.
- Govinda Govinda Mar 24, 2014 13:57 Flag
If you win all your remaining 8 games, and they should not be too difficult since I read you are hitting form, and Arsenal drop 10 points and Spurs drop 6 points relative to you and Everton drop 4 points relative to you you could still play CL football next year, if I am correct.
But first you get to show us how much better you are relative to us when you play Bayern.
I hope you beat them. I really do. The PL needs points in the CL to retain 4 CL spots.
I noticed that Matic, signed by Moureen in January, was man of the match. This shows it is possible to sign players in January who can have a real impact on the title race.
Now I am not here to club Arsene on the head, and I do want him to stay on if he shows a learning curve, but I do want him to be way more aggressive in the transfer market. We took a big gamble not signing support for Giroud in the summer and an even bigger gamble not buying some goals this winter. We should stop taking gambles. Giroud didn't get injured but he sure as hell looks burned out and not good enough.
I could live with singing Mandzukic form Bayern AND Loic Remy. We need to sign 2 strikers specially if Giroud leaves because of his wife, which I hope he does, no insult intended. Loic Remy alone would not be a good enough striker plus he has had his share of injuries.
Yesterday I read an article saying we are looking to sell Podolski, Arteta and Vermaelen this summer. If we buy Draxler, a beast for the middle of the park and a young and promising CD in addition to a world class striker, next season could still be an exciting one.
Choosing to look to the future rather than the past after the chock of this weekend :-)
- Govinda Govinda Mar 23, 2014 12:01 Flag
Look I am not a big fan of Giroud and you need a top quality striker these days in order to improve your chances to compete but Giroud is not our only problem. There is a mental problem, as well as a depth problem at the moment. We have one semi natural winger in Podolski, and play Rosicky a natural nr 10 on the wing, and we have also played Cazorla on the left wing, also a natural nr 10.
We don't have a 2nd striker we trust so Giroud has been over played. We have players who continuously deal with injuries from the past and take too long to get back to there old level if at all. Look at Ramsey, he needed all of last year to get back and arguably his current never ending injury is a consequence of his leg break, Wilshire with his ankle has not been the same, will Walcott come back to his old explosive fast self? Without his speed he becomes an average player. Diaby never came back yet kept taking a spot in the squad, Eduardo never got back to his old level.
But I hope Giroud is from an era in which we did not have a lot of cash to spend and last summer we spend our cash on one player a gamble I can live with but we paid the price. I just hope next summer we will spend (net) between 50-100. Our squad needs character, we need a top speedy striker, a speedy winger and an other box to box Flamini but bigger, Yaya Toure type enforcer. Arteta is too slow for the big occasions. Liverpool will come with a new and improved squad and already have lots of pace, Chelsea will improve and become better and so will City. We can not stand still and rely on an injury prone squad.
- Govinda Govinda Mar 23, 2014 10:23 Flag
I agree we were second best and even the red card (which was not red card according to Graham Poll) would have made little difference and was not an excuse to lose 6-0. Teams go down to 10 man early in games and don't lose 6-0. CL final to Barca is one example of that.
I thought at that time Flamini used to be a decent left back, he could have come in for Gibbs. I don't think Flamini would have made the difference put possibly a difference.
Sad for Wenger that the all let him down (including himself) on what should have been memorable occasion.
I hope he and lads will learn and find a way not to bottle it in the bag games.
Will this be the result that tips him into changing clubs? I hope not and would not want to land in United's shoe's. It will be hard to find a manger that will not do a Moyes at Arsenal.
I hope this will propel him into buying some more pace in the squad. We could use more than Theo in terms of speedy wingers and we could use a speedy striker. Wenger clearly is not impressed enough with Gnarby to play him instead of Theo.
It is hard to get once head around all the variables. Like how would we have done with Ramsey and Theo and Ozil? Better? I hope so but it would be anybodies guess.
- Govinda Govinda Mar 22, 2014 18:36 Flag
can't disagree with you, but it still shocking. He fielded the same squad that showed nearly nothing against Spurs. Arteta has no pace and is left wanting in the big games and shows no leadership. Giroud is useless. And tactically we should have tried to park the bus and hit them on the counter instead we go all out and walk into, as you point out, the same old Moureen tactic which has been copied by Rogers. There is no excuse to lose like this, not our injuries and not the fact we went down to 10 men.
We have to buy a top striker and some character this summer but I worry about this window. I can see us use the excuse that there is not enough time before the WC to get our business done (we don't know how to do our business efficient and quick) and that after the WC the players are on 3 week holiday and can't focus on negotiating with us etc etc. Next thing you know September approaches and we will have signed no one who fits our needs.