Liverpool Message Board
Good point Dave, you might be interested to take a look at the "Different take on Zenit games" thread to widen the discussion a bit. My point there, and here, is that for me the most damning statistic for LFC is a failure to score more from the record chances we´ve created. Do that, and no-one would care too hoots about substitutions, gaffs, formations, selections etc etc. Cure that one fault and we´d still be in the FA cup and fourth or better in the league. See the other thread for reasons.
True Loki but I think we´ve created 503 chances in all competitions this season so far!
If we´d scored one in five of those, we´d have 100 goals for. For me thats an easier thing to rectify than "we cut those (mistakes) out". It´s easier for me to up the score rate than avoid mistakes - which every human makes. As you said, no team has 100% conversion, but we need only to up the conversion ratio from around the current 10% to around 15%.to make a HUGE difference.Even with the mistakes we have made, that would put us in fourth or better.
Of course, both are important but we are more wasteful in front of goal than we are in conceding. Wouldn´t you agree?
Whilst the focus has all been on Jamie´s gaff and Brendans substituions, I´d like us to remember that we spurned at least three clear chances in the away leg and managed only one goal in open play last night. Could I therefore suggest that the real reason we lost was down to an inability to put the ball in the net. Something we´ve been guilty of all season from the record number of chances this team have created. I believe we are something like second in all European leagues on chances created.
For me, this is most encouraging. I think if we get Sturridge, Suarez, and a Borini replacement really going, we will be a hard team to defeat. Ok, so we need to sort out the defensive errors, but who cares if we concede if we are able to step up our conversion ratio just a few percent?
No quibbles with that selection if it includes Hendo and not Allen. That Brazilian Hulk is just too much power for the latter to contend with. Regards the outcome, I fear they will get an away goal leaving us to score four which is just a couple maybe too far in the absence of Sturridge. Agree, if Suarez ups his score ratio, they can be got at but he is woefully wasteful and will need approx twenty attempts to score two. Just so long as he gets some support in the box and isnt left with no option but to have a shot himself. Sadly though, I guess we are going out. Hope I´m wrong
Tell you what Hobs, that selection wouldn´t do much worse than our last few team performances! Some of those might at least show some of the chronically missing passion and backbone we are so short of when things go wrong.
I hope we can get three points against Swansea and, history dictates we´ll sail back from the last three performances by giving them a three or four goal thrashing - in which case I will scream in frustration, calm down and once again hope that our season can once more kick off to a better conclusion.
Oops, but I forgot, we´ll lose 2 - 5 to Zenit at Anfield on the back of a victory over the Swans. What a roller coaster of a season!!
Sorry, can´t resist this in my current mood
and I only left Johnson and Enrique there because Carragher can´t
play all four defense positions!!
Jason, tome it´s clear that Suarez is out of control.
If I were Rodgers, I´d lambast him privately and tell him to wise up, stop trying the spectacularly impossible and start playing sensibly. In short, he is being allowed to get away with murder week in week out and I bet it´s not just us supporters he´s frustrating!
Clearly Rodgers can´t control him. Hate to say it but he needs a Fergie to sort him out and turn him from profligate to effective.
Read this after my comments above re BR´s post match opinion
"Rodgers said afterwards it was "a perfect away performance, apart from 10 minutes", and if that is how he views the standards set by Liverpool supporters he could well find himself in trouble".
Seems even the press are at it now and no more than such stupid comments deserve!
I watched the first half then we had folks in for dinner so had to switch off with the score at a flattering nil nil as far as we were concerned. No matter, I told the Mrs what the outcome would be and am glad I didn´t have to watch yet another capitulation, (actually I reckoned we´d lose three one), and say bye bye to another possible trophy. Not even the consolation of an away goal.
They will definitely score at Anfield which means we need to score at least four goals to go through. Not a hope in hell.
This is getting to be beyond belief. The chances we did create we spurned and, once again, there appeared to be no cohesive belief in the squad. That has to be down to the manager and though I´ve tried to be as well as call for patience in the past, enough is getting to be enough.
BR is not getting the steady improvement he claims and the players as a bunch are certainly collectively more talented than those playing for teams who are regularly beating us.
I fear for our remaining fixtures and lest anyone says we shouldn´t judge on one result, I´m not! There have been far too many poor results for it to be put down to the bad luck BR is constantly claiming. That is in fact an insult to us supporters who see the flaws. If only he would come out and say "we simply weren´t good enough" I´d cut him even more slack but he won´t.
Once again, disappointed and disgusted.
I know, I know! And, it´s not as if other teams don´t rely heavily on one player or another. I guarantee if you took RVP´s goals out of the Them performances this season, City would be far closer to the title. Likewise Barcelona and El Messi, Tottenham Balespur, etc etc.the list goes on.
If only the Gerrard shooting sights were working better as well as those of a certain Luis, we´d have a bundle more points in the bag!
Noo Noo, that´s Chinese water torture! Just rubs in the irony of where we find ourselves viz 9th in the league and out of the FA cup. More seriously, it´s a measure of just how insipid our finishing has been.
Trouble with that balanced view is that as a club, we play things close lto our chests. The owners make no real comment, means we all try guessing what the vision is or how long/short term.
If the club have anything to answer to it´s supporters for, it´s the lack of comment.
A good leader takes his troops with him, keeps them in the loop, informs them of what he is trying to achieve, repeats the message regularly, kicks ass when needed and praises even when things get tough.
Don´t see much sign of that at Anfield so the guessing games will go on I reckon. Meantime, I´m trying to be patient in the absence of any short term info from the club and have to trust that we will continue to develop in the right direction.
Winning our remaining fixtures is a big ask as I see us at the moment. So, even more important to keep a level head and keep supporting. Just hope the management are trying to instill the same confidence into the players and that as confidence rises, so too will our league position.
Noo Noo, good post I thought.
Certainly it´s a (very) long term view but you are right when you make the point of longevity being equated with long term success. I haven´t done it and stats are not my thing, but it would be interesting to look at the Premier League alone as an example.
No rocket science needed. Looking like 20 titles for Them and if someone graphed the number of managers per club relative to finishing position (averaged) over the PL years, I have a strong feeling there would be a noticeable trend in support of your argument.
For hypothetical example:-
av finishing position (say) 2
managers 6 (?)
av finishing position 12
Loki, I think it´s not so much the defeats as the manner of the defeats.
We draw at Arsenal and City then the same team turns up at Anfield and puts on a truly insipid performance against WBA to quote the most recent example - of many.
All of a sudden and without any apparent reason, we concede 2 goals after 80 minutes of nil pressure by WBA and 80 minutes of constant toothless pressure by us going the other way. It´s enough to baffle anyone.
Totally inconsistent and therefore highly frustrating I´m sure you´d agree. Not good enough for the squad we have and so it is very difficult for we supporters to find meaningful excuses. Hence the bile on this board I suspect. I can understand it.
"sorted the attack out" ??
Bar the headed goal we conceded followed by the "caught on the break" one which followed, our defense was hardly troubled all night. On the other hand, we make 19 scrappy and insipid attempts on their goal, penalty included, (keeper was good on four of them admittedly) whilst they have 4 attempts and score 2. We lost any impetus the moment we got within thirty yards of their goal and, the woefully wayward Suarez excepted, no-one seemed to know what to do - pass or shoot or dribble..
Our attack is far from sorted! If it was, we should have scored five or more with that ratio! We couldn´t hit a barn door last night let´s be honest!
Without Sturridge last night we looked like we did all last season and for most of this! Based on last night´s performance, next season is going to look much the same given that the competition will probably match us on signings and strengthening in the summer. It´s becoming clear to me we also need a good old fashioned tall, meaty bruiser with the ability to head the ball to complement our central strike force. This is the premiership and it´s against brawling scrapping heavyweight defenders in mid table that we need to take maximum points, not Arsenal and City and their flowing football. A draw against them, especially away from home, is not a problem at this stage in our re-build.
Any form of cheating is both undesirable and unacceptable. Suarez is of course a high profile player who is certainly far from alone in cheating but who is more "newsworthy" than less highly profiled players. Hence the circus which commences after every "Suarez" episode and not every time a player cheats, which is all too often week in week out
So, no defending Suarez here from me. That said, perhaps it would be more balanced , if un-newsworthy, to highlight these incidents every time they occur? I think perhaps morally yes but in reality it ain´t going to happen!
I hate to admit it but I was so confident we´d slip up I bet on WBA to win.I´ve won too many bets this season in similar fashion and I don´t bet unless the odds are as attractive as they were tonight which is a funny way of backing what I said earlier this week, it´s the mid team tables that cause us the biggest problems!
We were as usual odds on to win. Even the draw was 4 to 1 and WBA nearly 8 to 1 against! Disgraceful!
I said we´d lose this a week ago. We were due on of those awful backward steps and here it was.
21 attempts at goal v 3 by WBA says it all. We couldn´t score to save our lives never mind get three points.
That´s fourth definitely gone and seventh looking likely only if we promptly halt this latest rot.
Enrique was generally terrible, Johnson not on song, Gerrard wayward, Suarez all over the place and ineffective etc etc. At times we looked like we were just not interested.
I reckon we could have had 40 shots and Foster would have saved ten of them. We just can´t score against him. Pepe? Well just about average bar one good fingertip save.
Pathetic performance and please....no excuses please Brendan. Just do something about it!!