Arsenal Message Board
Fourth best defence in the league (behind the second best by only 2 goals) and that's disappointing?
Personally, I don't think the problem is (solely) with our defenders or how many goals we concede - it's more about the situations in which we concede. We concede some silly goals due to a mental fragility in the whole team. Strikers squander chances in big games, midfielders don't hold or press the ball and pressure builds on the defence. Of course, in those situations, they will concede eventually.
I'm no AKB (trust me) but I definitely think a lot Arsenal fans have lost all perspective when it comes to our defenders. For a player as slow as he is, Mertesacker is acutally ace and for all his mistakes, there aren't many *available* better than Vermaelen. I think the whole team needs to learn how to be resolute in defending against big teams rather than pinning blame on just individual CDs.
- Timi O by Timi O Dec 3, 2012 12:47 Flag
Money isn't the problem eh? The thing that annoys Arsenal fans is not just that we're not spending, but that we can see the money coming in without being spent! We see huge sums come in for our top players, sponsorship deals, savings because of the wage structure (and the players it forces us to lose)... but where is it all going? If we're not spending all this money on players, where are are we spending it? On the Denver Nuggets I guess. Gazidis gets huge bonuses, Arsene Wenger 4th highest paid club manager in the world (behind only SAF, Mourinho and new-money Ancelotti) but we can't get decent players? The board are greedy greedy evil 'C-words'. I'd take an Abrahamovic (i.e. Usmanov) over a Silent Stan any day.
When was the last time Arsenal bought a cheap player who was a hit (and din't need 3 to 5 years of grooming)? I don't remember personally. And even if someone else can name me one person, how about the horde of failures (Denilson, Bendtner, Vela, Bischoff, Park, Squillaci, the Almighty Chamakh and Diaby - talented as he is) for each success?
Imagine a team full of 'Santi Cazorlas' (not literally, but figuratively in terms of quality). You know why that sounds good? Because he is quality and that was reflected in his price. The little guy just joined and already he has to do it all himself! That being said, I am more suspicious of our very greedy Board and Silent Stan T.w.a.t.face than I am of Wenger.
I agree completely with Marintii and Gunner-Getcha.
I'm a massive Arsenal supporter (I don't like the word 'fan'... reminds me of sheep to the slaughter), but I think it is naive to think that Chelsea merely 'parked the bus'.
If that was all it took, why have all the teams who tried to pack the defence against Barca not won? Over two legs!
Also, where has the mentality that attacking prowess is more impressive than defensive prowess come from? It is so utterly utterly stupid! And it seems to be particularly rife only amongst football fans. That's like saying the boxer who dances around the ring the most is the better one... or the racing driver who performs the flashiest overtakes deserves to win the race... or the snooker player who performs the most trickshots is the superior etc.
I love attractive football, really! That's one of the biggest reasons I love Arsenal... but to assume that it is the only or 'right' way = naive.
Congratulations Chelsea and I think AFC as a whole could learn a thing or two from you this season - about resilience, character, coming back from adversity and especially, how to win.
Accuse me of not being a 'fan' if you want... doesn't really affect the validity or otherwise of my point.
I have been a regular reader of these forums for years now but rarely post, and I am amused by the 'sibling rivalry' (football siblings).
Just wanted to say, sometimes it is quite funny to read... but most of the time it is just tedious.
Come on guys, let's get back to talking about football, especially Arsenal. When you bother to do that, these forums actually have a good collection of insightful and 'free thinking' posters - on both sides of the divide (which is why I've stayed). But when every topic degenrates into petty bickering, it becomes annoying!
I'm sorry... Chelsea have had a very bad season? With an FA cup and being in the champions league final?
Just because they lost out on top 4 doesn't mean they've had a bad season... only sheepish Arsenal fans think that way. Making it into the top 4 isn't THE standard of success, and to be honest I think it's pretty sad that Arsenal fans now think this way.
Call me a moaner... but I just think it's stupid to suggest that even if you pay your hard earned cash supporting a team, you have no right to air your grievances. That's just silly - if we can do it in politics, religion, science... what makes football so immune?
I said it at the beginning of the season (not on here though) and I still maintain - Arsene and the Board need to pull their fingers out. AFC have been riding their luck for the past few seasons. Just like Mike Ashley did with NUFC a few seasons ago, the board seem to think it's impossible that the worst will happen to Arsenal. They seem to think our worst case scenario is playing Europa league football. They are wrong. All it takes is one bad transfer window leading into a bad season and we could easily become a lower mid-table team.
In football, as with life... if you're not going forward, you ARE going backward. And AFC definitely aren't going forward.
How come no one has replied to this? I'm quite surprised by that frankly.
Especially considering Mertesacker and Koscielny are now also both injured!
Jeez... something is definitely rotten in the state of Arsenal (medical staff/physios).
Well I don't believe he sustained it due to an aggressive tackle. Like most of Arsenal players' injuries, his body seemed to crumble under what would otherwise be normal pressure.
The point is our players seem to sustain injury from physical strain (either from themselves or other players) that isn't to a degree that normally causes injury to other players.
Arsenal's Physios/Medical team MUST be doing something wrong. For the past 5 seasons we always appear to be nursing a raft of injuries for at least half of each season!
Every club gets injuries... sometimes. The worrying thing about arsenal is their consistency. Either the club go for injury-prone players because they're cheaper, or something must definitely be wrong with the way we manage our players. What say ye?
P.S: Obviously, I am aware his injury was sustained on loan, but he was only 5 games in. I hardly think the level of his fitness/non-fitness can be attributed to the Wolves team.
Good point Will. You are certainly right about my expectations of him - while I don't see him as a real replacement for Fabregas, I was expecting him to do some of the things that Fabregas did (just with lesser quality). I laughed when I read the line about 'what Arteta adds is the ability to not do something bad', which is kinda true. Generally, that is true, but as you pointed out, he does tend to drop off/switch off sometimes (like silly fouls on the edge of the box, or moving from the near post to the centre of the goal against Chelsea).
I hope he grows into the team, that would be a nice outcome... although he probably won't get a chance to play as first choice once Wilshere is fit, will he?
I take all your points, but Andy I think he is not that solid defensively which is why he gives so many fouls away around the box. Also, surely he is better going forward than Song? I think he should be anyway. Song has started giving the ball away a lot more than he used to and I think that might be because he is pushing forward more than he used to. Just a thought.
Must say I am happy with Ramsey's progress though. Compared to how rusty he was at the beginning of the season, he seems to be settling in nicely, as is Rosicky. All in all, things seem to be on the up I suppose.
Ignore some of these antagonists... personally, I saw nothing wrong with your original post John. And while I read on from this forum very regularly, I rarely post... so I think I can hardly be accused of bias.
I enjoyed every bit of our victory, but I think only a very naive and silly Arsenal fan would be willing to overlook just how terrifyingly shocking our defence was, and the fact that the only reason the power of our attack was allowed to show was because Chelsea also looked a bit low on confidence (perhaps because of their loss to QPR via two sending offs, and the whole JT affair). If we had been playing even Liverpool or Tottenham, there is no way we would have been afforded so many chances to get back into the game, after the amount of errors our defence committed.
By all means, let us enjoy our sweet, sweet victory and nothing would make me happier than if Arsenal ended up in a CL spot this season (preferably as high up as possible). But I don't think that if someone raises valid points to be debated concerning the fragilities of our team, it means that they are not a real fan / don't want the team to succeed.
I'm sorry, not trying to be negative (I am so thrilled for our win), but there's just this question that has been niggling in the back of my mind since the beginning of the season. I just cannot see what Arteta brings to the team.
He's supposed to be a playmaker right? But 95 percent of the time I only see him pass short-range sideways or backward. I never see him show any range or vision. So after yesterday's game, I got so bothered by it that I finally checked the stats - 10 games = 1 assist and 1 goal. I know you might say it's a bit early, but consider this, he has been in the Premier league for ages, and apart from the stats, I really don't see him do anything (please correct me if you think I'm wrong). I know Mertesacker is slow, but I've also noticed that he is very good at reading the game and intercepting balls... he is also obviously very tall. I know Santos has attacking power, I know Jenkinson is a good crosser, Gervinho rips the wings to shreds... but am I the only person who gets stressed when the ball goes to Arteta (not only because he gives it away too much for a midfield anchor) but also because you know he just will not pass forward if there is even one defender between him and a teammate?
I'm not bashing senselessly (I'm not even intending to bash at all), I'm just wondering why is someone else not in the team instead of him - like Benayoun for example?
P.S I realise he passed to Van P yesterday for one of his goals, but that was a rather basic one, outside the box that didn't have to go through any defenders... not even sure it counts as an assist.
Ah no. I watched the game live and to be honest Arshavin had a horrible game. Then he switched on for like 10 mins, scored a goal, created another one, and then switched off again. I'm sure anyone else who watched the game would agree. That probably had nothing to do with his position though. He was just misplacing almost all his passes and made many many wrong decisions.
I really hope Wenger doesn't keep playing people out of position.. I really hope he has let that go as well. Park is an out and out striker. Not only will playing him anywhere but upfront drag the team down, it would be a waste of his abilities. I've been aware of him for a while and he is actually a good finisher, and I personally believe that his average goal record is due to not having decent supply.
Let's put it this way, he ain't scared of the box... unlike a certain Mr. Marouane Chamakh.
I read a very interesting line a few days ago here, and it went something like 'Wenger has to go sometime, and then what?'
It was a sort of response to the AKB squad. We may act like it is heresy for Arsene to go (because of all he has done and all that), but he will have to go sometime, and then what? Is Arsenal automatically doomed without him, cuz it sounds like thats what a lot are suggesting. Arsene Wenger has made a habit of making counter-intuitive choices over the past 6 (or maybe even 7, he didnt lose his senses and touch overnight) months, and has been shooting himself in the foot when he has been in great positions. Should that be tolerated in a club like Arsenal. Defensive, Goalkeeping, Experience, and Leadership frailties have plagued us for the last 6 seasons, yet he keeps losing our best players and refusing to replace them, season after season. Yet, ticket prices keep going up. is this truly excuseable behaviour?
No matter how terrible Arsenal was (even though we werent actually that terrible, performance-wise not entertainment-wise) before Wenger, we cannot (as an ambitious club) use that as a reason to tolerate lingering in retardation. You know what they say, 'if you arent going forward, you're going backward.'
Being close this season means nothing, we've been close before, and then far again the next season, and then close again, and then far again. We are yoyoing, as is the case with anything, but it is certainly not evidence we are getting better. Wenger is getting worse in my opinion, and Arsenal needs to nut-up and make a decision and a declaration to the fans - are we a club who WANTS to win trophies, or are we a club who simply wants to stay solvent and not take any risk? If trophies is the answer, then I think Wenger must be off now, surely... risk -taking is a part of success, Wenger has grown afraid of risk and plays it safe ALL the time now (or at least he thinks he does). His biggest risk has been Arshavin, for what? 13 - 14 mill? Yet he feels comfortable shelling out disgracefully low amounts for Kosc from the Belgian second div, who would obviously be our first choice CB (given Djourou's injury record). Refusing to pay just 500 grand more for Mark Schwarzer was just sacrilegious...
Is this really f*****g excusable behavior? Really? Really????
I know. And how dare Wenger suggest that Sczezny, or Fabianski, or Mannone are ready to be first choice? They all got their shot (some more than one), and proved what we know... talent does not fucking equal experience or performance.